Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

So much double think going on. Mental gymnastics and not a clean routine to be seen.

That there are almost no straight or gay people who will feel (enough) attraction to transpeople to have sex/enter a relationship with them.

I've said this before, I don't think this is necessarily the case. Attraction is not the issue. Plenty of people could find a trans partner attractive.

But any relationship would be severely strained by constantly having to pretend the trans partner is the opposite sex to what they actually are.

In 2016 a Brexit supporter was fined £185 and ordered to pay court costs for temporarily stealing Eddie Izzard's beret.

Temporarily, as he (the reports at the time used this pronoun) retrieved the hat.

The chanting mob element wasn't present in his case - nor was he removed - but Izzard described the demonstrators as "dangerous".

I remember reading an article by a trans writer who explained that as a TW they did not want to partner a bisexual female, as it was a worry that the person was in fact attracted to their pre transition gender. A lesbian female would not trigger them in this way as it confirmed that it was an exclusive attraction towards their chosen transitioned gender.

I understand it. I sympathise with it. But you cannot control other people's sex lives and self definitions and freedoms to meet your own needs.

If it was a case of some people are homogenderal and that's fine and some people are homosexual and that's fine, and we all get along and respect each others freedom to choice and being themselves - and likewise we accept some women's spaces are designated mixed sex but single gender and some are single sex and that's fine, and we all get along and respect each others need for inclusion - there would be no issue.

The problem is the enforcing of other people's conforming to beliefs they do not hold, do not want to hold, and which removes their rights and freedoms and equalities in favour of other people's.

Yes I think thats definitely part of it trancepants.

Had a brief chat with my brother about this earlier. He peaked long before I did but hadn't heard about this incident. His take on it, is that it's all about sex. That there are almost no straight or gay people who will feel (enough) attraction to transpeople to have sex/enter a relationship with them. And even though bisexual people could theoretically be attracted to a transperson, it's probably not super common as even if you are attracted to both male and female people, that doesn't mean you'll ever be attracted to a male who presents as a woman or a woman who presents as a man. It's why we have this quite "new sexuality of pan" but even then people who say they are pan, are almost certainly being extra woke and not all would actually be attracted to transpeople in reality.

So transpeople find themselves extremely limited in terms of potential romantic or sexual partners and a lot of what we're seeing is a push to somehow force this to change. To create a mindset that you must be open to having sex with a transperson. That people being non-binary, gender fluid, etc is all about breaking down normal and natural barriers.

I disagree with my brother on a lot of things. But I don't think he's wrong on any of this, tbh.

Common assault is magistrate's court isn't it? No jury?

Yes.

I don't think you'd persuade a Crown Prosecutor that the evidential or public interest thresholds had been met – let alone a jury so as to be sure – that what happened caused anyone to "suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence" within the meaning of the law

Common assault is magistrate's court isn't it? No jury?

I do a fair bit of self defence work, and being surrounded by a hostile crowd, jeering, who have already shown they're prepared to lay hands on you... would definitely meet my criteria for 'violence imminent - get the hell out of there'. The police clearly felt the same, as they escorted him away.

Legally you'd get away with a pre-emptive strike in those circumstances, IMO, but strategically that would be a bad choice unless there's an obvious ringleader and a clear exit.

"We can assure the judge that we are inclusive of all gender orientations. Fred looks at porn in his lunch hour and Jane likes anime".

It's the confidence I admire.

ss. 12 and 39 of the Equality Act will mean sod all if sexual orientation and sex no longer mean anything, but I suppose the theory is that there will always be a corner of England that will protect the rights of men.

Catching up on old posts because this thread moved fast.

There is no way that a prosecutor would consider that the alleged "robbery" met the threshold of "steals" as set out in s. 1 of the Theft Act 1968. And none of his bits about s. 12 of the Equality Act or "harassing based on a s. 9 protected belief" are anything beyond legal word-salad.

Really? How not? I cannot consider myself any authority on the Equality Act, but I've definitely read the Theft Act before.

In that video, he is clearly escorted for his safety by the police officers without a hat. Did the assailant give the hat back at a later point? If they did, is there evidence they would have done so without police intervention?

Looks like intention to permanently deprive to me.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1

A prosecutor might not consider it worth prosecuting, but that does not mean it is not worth prosecuting. They don't bother prosecuting the vast majority of rapists either. Doesn't mean they didn't rape.

I'm glad you've been provided with a legally qualified perspective Floral. It must be reassuring to know that you will be proceeding with your attire at your own risk.

Just had a notification that my LGB Alliance T-shirt is in the post. You can imagine how reassured I am that someone who is legally qualified has insisted that if I were to be assaulted while wearing it, it wouldn't be because I'm a lesbian who refuses to submit to gender ideology. Warms the very cockles of my spleen, so it does.

But what if they have lesbian friends that disagree with you?

It's especially good when they are "legally qualified gay men" so our own opinions on points of law or gay, lesbian and bisexual rights can be dismissed without any particular evidence other than anecdotes.

Crikey, where would we be if there were never any men coming to FWR to offer an alternate perspective that minimized and dismissed female perspectives and blamed assault on what people were wearing? Thank goodness some of them still perform this service.

It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective.

Unfortunately I don't think you are familiar enough with the issues involved to present an alternative perspective. You have talked a lot about possible motives for the attack, but not engaged with issues around language and rights.

I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic.

Mermaids would likely disagree with this. May I remind you all that one of the staff (a woman who identifies as cis) at Mermaids attempted to have a transwoman (Miranda Yardley) prosecuted for transphobia for disagreeing with her on the internet?

It was the very first prosecution for transgender hate crime in Britain. The judge dismissed the case on the first day, but obviously that didn't reverse all the stress she'd put Miranda through, because time isn't reversible.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

I don't get why he had to leave was it because he didn't have LBGT an only had LGB?

If a gay person suffered discrimination at work on the grounds of their sexuality, that would be protected by ss. 12 and 39 of the Equality Act, which I wouldn't change.

Not if sexuality cannot be defined objectively. This is what Stonewall are campaigning for. Subjective gender identity over sex, so no meaningful protected characteristics. It's just another version of 'all lives matter'. My wish to have my sense of self affirmed (I just don't want to identity as a boring heterosexual person anymore) is more important than your rights.

It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

A perspective that is common amongst many trans activists. I'm not unfamiliar with it. I strongly disagree with the lack of logic that surrounds it, and the harm that in turn it causes.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Anyway, I've spent too much of an (admittedly overcast) Bank Holiday discussing this with you all. It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

LOL. Just LOL.