Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

Wearing apparel that supported that, on that particular day, seems a very clear message that people who are trans should not be present during Pride marches

Does it, though? Supporting one cause doesn’t necessarily mean that you oppose people who support another one. It’s a big old leap. There are trans members of LGB Alliance. As helleofabore says, it caters to people who don’t feel that stonewall are representing them. One could as well say that any of the trans charities that are no doubt represented there are saying that gay people shouldn’t be there- and I really don’t think that they are. But by your logic, if LGBT issues can only ever be addressed together, then there shouldn’t be any trans organisations that don’t also campaign on LGB issues, no?

it looked like the community as whole stood up and said 'Hang on, we're not ok with that.'

Just like the tone you have used here. No. They did not stand up and say 'Hang on, ....', that would imply that someone took the man aside and had a civil chat or that even if they all stood back and shouted something and left him well alone and untouched. But, no they abused, assaulted and harassed one single gay man to the point he sought police protection.

As I said, with words meaning whatever someone wishes them to, it must be really hard to convey your meaning accurately.

This use of language ultimately gives the actions of the group credibility.

The vast majority of people attending Pride naturally do not want to march alongside someone that attacks values that they hold dearly.

And here we again have it implied that LGB Alliance is 'attacking'. No, they campaign on behalf of their growing membership to ensure that the interests of LGB people are centred which they identified was not happening the Stonewall, an organisation some had been part of from the start.

If people cannot accept that a group campaigns to support the needs of LGB people separate to the other letters, how are they operating in the real world where they have to sit with people at work or in their family that have differing opinions.

Disagreement is not bullying. But good point, with words no longer meaning what they used to, it is probably hard to find a word to convey your meaning.

Everyone has every right to shout out about values they hold dear, and I would say as much for the Edinburgh protest as well. It seems hard to get comprehensive video footage of all that occurred in either case. But as far as I'm concerned the women had every right to shout to the tops of their lungs about what is important to them, and yes, to do that in front of counter protesters. As long as the speech does not conflict with any laws then that is just what freedom of speech is.

These boards operate in pretty much the same way on Mumsnet, there are some lone voices that attempt to stand against the tide of GC feminism, and they are often ridiculed, misrepresented, hounded, treated with contempt - is that bullying or not? The effort is designed to undermine or to make those voices go away, and it often has that effect. Just like the LGB Alliance person walked away. I don't know that people on these boards can complain when others operate in the same way that they do themselves.

Obviously no one has the right to take property from someone, or to lay hands on someone and that is to my mind where a line is crossed.

Pride is about inclusion, solidarity, support for each other, including trans people, and the LGB Alliance is in opposition to those themes - it was established to oppose the inclusion of trans rights within LGB issues. It wants to put clear distance between identity matters and sexuality matters.

Wearing apparel that supported that, on that particular day, seems a very clear message that people who are trans should not be present during Pride marches; it appears as an attempt to exclude deeply valued members of our community, and it looked like the community as whole stood up and said 'Hang on, we're not ok with that.'

The vast majority of people attending Pride naturally do not want to march alongside someone that attacks values that they hold dearly. They do not want to represent values of division and antipathy to the public as they walk through communities.

And there were women wearing purple and waving purple things around, Sophocles. So, you are right.

By some poster's logic those trans rights counter-protesters would have been absolutely righteous in abusing and assaulting any of those women who were deliberately provoking them.

Just linking this thread here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4324076-Womens-Rights-Demo-Scottish-Parliament-11am-2nd-Sept

It is entirely relevant as a comparator.

Stop enabling abusive behaviour under the guise that 'it doesn't happen', 'the vast majority don't do that' and 'well that person deserved that abuse because they provoked the more marginalised, more vulnerable group' (who can abuse with impunity under that guise).

Can I have a go?

The disruptive trans rights protestor was subjected to violence at the protest, because being in the presence of women talking about women’s rights is, by virtue of the power differential, inherently violent against them, because it denies their existence. The assault is right there in plain sight!

Did I get it?

I would like to think that there’s no one so dim and malevolent as to make Alex being a Tory into any kind of justification of what he was subjected to, but I see that I’ve been disappointed again.

Have we had any comments yet from those who supported or denied the abuse and assault against a lone gay man wearing the logo'd apparel of an alternative LGB rights group about how those counter protesters in Edinburgh should have been similarly abused and assaulted and need to be escorted away.

oh.... I can hear chirping is building.

Keep on denying that abusive behaviour has been enabled by the lack of censure from groups that claim to support women and LGB people, but actually are complicit in causing them harm. It becomes very clear when you pull it all together.

As I said above. Pride isn't a 'celebration' it's a protest. It's a protest that members of the LGBT community died for. To cut trans out the title and refuse to express support for the cause undermines everything the stonewall riots originally stood for.

Stonewall was started by a lesbian, Storme Delarverie. And, funnily enough, wasn't the driver of change for lesbian and gay people in the UK. That was effected by lesbian and gay people.

How many people died at Stonewall? Or is this the usual hyperbole?

@BilindaB, @NoNotMeNoSiree and @JustPassingThrough3,

Do you think the women's rights protesters should have stolen this man's flag? Do you think the police should have removed him for being provocative?

I was also there today, and the TRA came into the women’s protest with a flag and a loudhailer, disrupting the speeches. The police stopped them coming further in but just contained them. People just ignored them mostly or tried to block their flag with pro women ones. To be honest it just made them look obnoxious and pathetic. There was never any threat of violence from the women, it was really striking how different the two camps are in that respect.

It was a great protest, loads of people and a positive atmosphere.

If you had read my posts you'd have seen that I thought what happened was over the top and aggressive, but not a homophobic assault

You supposedly a legally trained man cant see the homophobia in the actions?

Are you the same poster who hilariously wrote owness?

Why the hell are you harping on about it? The CPS will decide in due course about prosecuting or not until then it really doesn't matter, unless your going to be defending? Which I seriously doubt.

Yourstupidityexhaustsme

Whilst excluding his support for trans rights.

As I said above. Pride isn't a 'celebration' it's a protest. It's a protest that members of the LGBT community died for. To cut trans out the title and refuse to express support for the cause undermines everything the stonewall riots originally stood for.

Some of these trans people believe that a gay man should want to have sex with a transman and that a lesbian should want to have sex with a transwoman and their lady penis, or they are transphobic and genital fetishists.

How is that standing up for gay and lesbian rights

Thank you for sharing that. I am so cross.

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Feminist protest outside the Scottish Parliament today.

Crowd of women, with flags and banners. To the left is a man waving a trans flag. I would like to draw your attention to how the women are not attacking him.

According to various posters on this thread, they would be entitled to do so.

Except that if those women did attack that man and steal his flag, I have a feeling that previous posters who thought it a mere lark when the trans activists were stealing a gay man's hat, wouldn't be on the women's side here. I bet they'd find it absolutely dreadful if some feminists stole that man's flag.

twitter.com/LabWomenDec/status/1433368585544650755?s=19[/quote]
Spot on Purgatory, as ever.

I was at that protest and during it someone else with the "new" rainbow flag stood in the middle of the female protestors , shouting something illegible , refusing to move to the counter protest part even when told to by police , and strangely the only thing that happened to them was they were shouted down , no violence no theft almost as though its not a "both sides thing "

Feminist protest outside the Scottish Parliament today.

Crowd of women, with flags and banners. To the left is a man waving a trans flag. I would like to draw your attention to how the women are not attacking him.

According to various posters on this thread, they would be entitled to do so.

Except that if those women did attack that man and steal his flag, I have a feeling that previous posters who thought it a mere lark when the trans activists were stealing a gay man's hat, wouldn't be on the women's side here. I bet they'd find it absolutely dreadful if some feminists stole that man's flag.

twitter.com/LabWomenDec/status/1433368585544650755?s=19

@MissingLesbianSpaces I agree, you need to be more fluid and rather than follow what you know to be true just swap to being straight. Better still, to 'be kind' you could also consider becoming a TW. Bit of a jump, but remember you can ignore XX so biological sex isn't an issue and all in aid of 'being kind' but not to you.

Don't you just love the way LGBT+ brings you flexibility to fit in or be an outcast?

Enough4me, I might have to become straight to be safe at an lgbt march!

@MissingLesbianSpaces I like your comparative approach. To add to this, are you a 'transcharity' person. You aren't supporting all cancer charities in factual terms, but can feel like you are as you support, of course, the right type of charity? Squash the wrong types of charity as they are clearly threats.

Like TW, TC people just have 'feelings' then make loads of shit up to suit themselves.

This could catch on, I may have to become a queer TC person as it sounds like a new 'in group', perhaps I could brainwash followers people to 'feel' like me...

Sorry, had to share this.

On Sunday a guy in a LGBTQ+ bar in Liverpool asked the staff to call the police because a couple of other customers didn't meet his sartorial standards.

The owner: 'Me and my staff, we don't judge anybody who comes into the venue, what they dress, their religion, race, creed, sexuality, whatever.'

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/club-owner-kicks-man-out-21442820

Or, and I think I can hear the penny dropping in my own head they need the T because some are hetero?

A pretty penny at that 💷

I wear a pink breast cancer pin because I want all other cancer patients to die in a violent way.

Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddick used to speak Polari in their "Jules and Sand" sketches in Round the Horne - they were hilarious

Totally bona