Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

So we risk harming many amongst us when we seek to divide and segregate. It is better to foster an atmosphere of inclusiveness and openness where people are allowed to change minds and not feel that they have to double down on a gender identity for example, which they may later feel is not what was at stake, but rather their sexuality instead. The segregation of interests pushes people into boxes, it becomes harder psychologically to move out of those boxes as the 'us Vs them' mentality is trapping.

Who do you think you're talking to here? We're the people who've supported and celebrated Keira Bell, a detransitioner who's come out as lesbian. And quite a few of us here are LGB. Please stop telling us what to do and think.

I'm old enough to remember the original lesbian and gay pride marches back in the 80s, which were entirely comprised of nervous and earnest lesbians and gay men in t-shirts. We had to travel to the meeting point on the tube with our badges in our pockets and our banners concealed in case we were beaten up.

Over the years they've been hijacked by straight people, adult babies, trans and queer people and every fetishist and narcissist under the sun. So much so that a great many of us dull homosexualists have decided that Pride is not for us. No one asked us if we were okay with what happened, they just stole our event.

Now that declaring yourself to be LGB incites bullying and threats we're clearly going to have to return to the 80s and have plain old fetish-free, glitter free marches for people who are happy to be lesbian and gay and want to stand up for LGB rights.

@merrymouse and @RedDogsBeg whereas conceptually issues of identity and sexuality can be clearly defined, the lived experience is a good bit more convoluted than that amongst the community.

There are people who have started out feeling their gender is what is different but later feel that it is their sexuality, and vice versa. The lived experience is complex for many (but not all of course, I have never questioned my gender identity despite fitting many of the stereotypes associated with the male sex better)

So we risk harming many amongst us when we seek to divide and segregate. It is better to foster an atmosphere of inclusiveness and openness where people are allowed to change minds and not feel that they have to double down on a gender identity for example, which they may later feel is not what was at stake, but rather their sexuality instead. The segregation of interests pushes people into boxes, it becomes harder psychologically to move out of those boxes as the 'us Vs them' mentality is trapping.

Just a very brief Google reveals: Trans Alliance, Trans Scottish Alliance, TELI, Trans Health Alliance. All trans specific interest and lobbying groups. Also Brighton trans Alliance, black trans Alliance.

Loads of them.

There were NO LGB specific interest groups until LGB Alliance was set up.

  In theory Stonewall speaks for the full community ( except it doesnt) and the sub groups speak for subsets of the community.

If LGBA is a hate group, then so are the trans groups. You can't have it both ways.

Odd isn't it though. Sub groups are fine and to be celebrated. Except when they're a sub group of same sex attracted people. Very peculiar.

EVERYONE was there celebrating homosexuality.

Don't be silly - Pride hasn't been simply celebrating homosexuality for years. A large number at Pride go to celebrate their/other's trans / drag /queer / a /third spirit/ furry / pan/ whatever identities - a lot are NOT celebrating simply being gay. LGBA were. And what on earth is wrong with that. It's not more exclusionary than any of the other sub groups - and simply celebrates/campaigns for that sub groups interests.

It's purpose was to separate the T from LGB, to exclude, to tell much valued members of our community they are not welcome.

Can you please talk through the train of thought that led you to this conclusion? Do you accept that you are imposing your own 'purpose' on to this person, and that this might be incorrect?

Would you appreciate me assuming what your purpose is in your posts or actions in the same way that you have done so to this person?

And do you accept that there are ways of 'a community standing up and saying no' that don't involve harassment and theft, or is this the only option?

EVERYONE was there celebrating homosexuality.

By whose definition of homosexuality?

You keep twisting this to try to make out that LGB Alliance are hateful. No, they continue to represent the interests of those who are same sex and only same sex attracted. Not same gender.

And let us keep repeating, they welcome transpeople who wish to join to focus on those objectives.

@freddykreugerswife, that's simply not true.

Of course there are multiple subdivisions of marchers celebrating their unique identities within the larger community...they haven't formed in protest of a larger grouping of people, they have formed and they gather and march to highlight their interests, be that dykes on bike, armed forces, gamer communities etc...Theirs is a joyful promotion of the things that are relevant in their lives.

LGB Alliance formed in specific protest to the larger group, to divide and delineate and to say "your interests are not our interests".

None of these other groups have set out with a remit to ideologically segregate the larger community.

What did the LGB Alliance T shirt celebrate? Homosexuality? No. Not at all. EVERYONE was there celebrating homosexuality. That is a given at Pride, and probably the least salient feature amongst marchers. It's purpose was to separate the T from LGB, to exclude, to tell much valued members of our community they are not welcome. And the community stood up said no to that.

It wants to put clear distance between identity matters and sexuality matters

and that is a problem because?

It wants to put clear distance between identity matters and sexuality matters.

And the reason they overlap is….?

The tone here is much more polite than in Fight Club AIBU.

LGB Alliance is in opposition to those themes - it was established to oppose the inclusion of trans rights within LGB issues. It wants to put clear distance between identity matters and sexuality matters.

Wearing apparel that supported that, on that particular day, seems a very clear message that people who are trans should not be present during Pride marches;

I think you have made a logical mistake here. Wanting an LGB group separate to trans groups does not mean trans groups should be excluded from pride. Simply that some people want to organise in smaller sections of the larger community.

Pride can and should be made up of many groups, LGB Alliance surely should be included.

Or Covid or Brexit.

These boards ask hard questions that seemingly never get a clear, defined answer.

Certainly the tone is no more aggressive than discussions on private schools or breast feeding.

Well then let's clear some things up.

Why thank you so much for your permission of women to shout loudly. Not sure we asked you mind.

These boards ask hard questions that seemingly never get a clear, defined answer. Its usually garbled undefined words in some incoherent writings. Let's see if you can answer any

What rights do trans people not have?
The staniland question?
Do you believe that the wispa incident was a TW or was that person faking being trans?
And finally is it homophobic to demand lesbians have to sleep with girl dick ?

The LGBa wants sexuality matters to actually matter, not gender.

You appear to be saying what he wore is the reason he was attacked, now where have I heard that before? Do you even make the connection about clothes wearing and being attacked? Can you see the issue here?

That is very shocking purgatory!

The more I read on forwarding the trans cause - from the extracts of RMW's book to this nonsense - the more it seems everything is in some way based on policing people's appearances.
It's grim.

That’s shocking purgatory. As well as incoherent. Standing for women’s rights is wrong, therefore everything that women do while doing it is wrong, and all women doing it have ulterior motives and are wrong ‘uns. And if you’re inadvertently racist while you’re scolding women, well, that’s just how it is.

Fucking hell.

A prolific twitter trans activist has accused a mixed-race woman of having a scary skin colour (trans activist thought it was fake tan and devoted tweets to making fun of it. The public figure and white transwoman Jane Fae joined in on the mockery of a mixed-race woman's skin), appropriating twerking, and oppressing the counter-protestors by twerking at them.

twitter.com/NehandaMusic/status/1433558838003712007?s=19

For some strange, unknown reason, the trans activist has chosen to delete these posts while claiming she really definitely isn't racist. But we all took screenshots.

The trans rights movement in the UK is so white that they don't even know what mixed-race people look like.

So there you have it. The women's rights protestors may have committed literal violence despite not touching the counter protestors, because they had a mixed-race woman with them, being non-white in front of the delicate trans activists.

Right side of history, my arse!

I thought he was waving an argentina flag

Maybe those who organise Pride should be very clear then that they will ONLY allow participation from the right kind of LGBT+ people. And that anyone who does not agree wholly with every part of whatever their objectives are should consider themselves forever excluded.

Plus, they need to disclose this fact to all the corporate sponsors and all those who mention the organisation as one to celebrate in their diversity documentation and courses.

I wonder how that would play out...

At least it would be honest.

To be clear.

Downplaying what is a genuine physical and verbal attack of a single gay man for wearing a shirt that a group did not like as being that the community as whole stood up and said 'Hang on, we're not ok with that.' and then stating the attack is when someone has different values to you and therefore you should not be expected to act like a mature adult and accept that others have different needs to you , even in the SAME community shows how far language has been destabilised to the point of hyperbole being the norm.

there are some lone voices that attempt to stand against the tide of GC feminism, and they are often ridiculed, misrepresented, hounded, treated with contempt - is that bullying or not?

No, they just fail to answer simple questions like ‘how do you protect the rights of a group that you can’t name or define?’

Perhaps you could answer that question.

it appears as an attempt to exclude deeply valued members of our community, and it looked like the community as whole stood up and said 'Hang on, we're not ok with that.'

The ex naval officer who lives in my street is a deeply valued member of my village community. That does not mean we have anything in common or need the same rights. You are confusing the rights that people need because they have a specific characteristic and value.