Are younger teens and pre-teens rejecting gender woo?

My 17 year old has saying for a while that it’s often just an excuse to bully others. He was pally with a trans teen (would’ve been in 6th form then) at his school who apparently just got in with their studies, didn’t discuss it and was just ‘chilled’. Also used sex-relevant facilities.

No my Ds 13 is acutely aware that changing biological sex is impossible. Biology is important in my job. He's also aware of the issues self ID creates for women and girls.
First day back at school last week and PSE was once again about transgender people, a girl pal of his was sent out of class for saying she identified as a kettle .

It's huge with pre-teens and early teens here. More with girls than boys, the latter seem a little perplexed about it generally. I'm not so sure about older teens, but my sense is that it's more mixed. Many have a vague idea that it doesn't quite add up but it's not allowed to talk about it in public, even with friends.

@bestbefore

My DS scoffs at it all, he jokes he identifies as a Apache helicopter.

My teens are also very folly eyed about it all and have nothing but derision for the straight but boring kids coming out as non binary

My 14 yo nephew is 100% GC
Someone in his class announced they had "changed sex" over the summer holidays and now wanted to be called Leo and use Male pronouns. He said it is impossible to change sex, but he will use the preferred pronouns to be kind.

It's a start isnt it.

My 12 year old ds has his eyes wide open and isn't falling for it, the girls in his year are going for it big time though unfortunately.

I was originally an 'Ally' in work when I thought it was all about fair equality. After my DD told me about her school experiences with girls flipping to be boys in school on a whim, and MN information, then men taking women's places in the Olympics, I now feel GC.

I'd say my teen DD set me in the right direction.

12 year old family friend is a budding feminist. Her English teacher told them that in the future no babies will be labelled girls or boys
All the girls kicked off about it. They also spoke out at the idea of males in their changing rooms

My DS scoffs at it all, he jokes he identifies as a Apache helicopter.

My 15 year old hasn't been taken in, it's not mentioned and she rolls her eyes at me when I say anything.

She doesn't use the loo during the day (they are single cubicles onto a corridor, mixed sex blocks) but I can't pin down her reasons. Occasionally one of her friends will pop to ours to use ours (we live near the school,) so maybe none of them like using them.

I have 16 and 12 year old sons. Neither of them have ever mentioned anything regarding gender to me. They don’t mention friends who are gender fluid or trans or non binary or any of it. And one has a few friends on the autistic spectrum (he is being assessed himself) which seem to represent a higher proportion of people with gender issues. It just doesn’t seem to be a thing that is in their worlds or on their radar.

[quote FrauleinSchweiger]@Bellinisurge - I hope that people will understand that many of the LGB (and QT possibly?) community have not been the drivers of this ideology. My daughters are fully accepting and inclusive of gay and lesbian people and actually they also have a Transgender teacher who is one of their favourite teachers at school. I hope I am raising them to be compassionate and thoughtful people. To my mind we can be inclusive without denying biology and steamrolling over women's rights, and that forms the basis of many of our discussions.[/quote]
Oh definately.

Some of the most outspoken critics of gender wang are trans sexuals, lesbians, increasingly gay men and liberal universalists.

This is not just a feminist battle and certainly not (how do they put it) just "the white cisheteronormative middle classes".

If common sense does triumph and Gen Z really are seeing through the Woo. I too hope that the excesses of this movement haven't destroyed the implicit understanding and tolerance that has previously existed (certainly in my lifetime and circles) towards trans women in womens spaces.

I suspect and hope not. I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

I think (if it doesn't subsume everything) it will just fade away like previous social contagions and we can get on with the business of building a fairer world gradually through bottom up principles, concensus and sane debate.

Good to hear that children are starting to see what's happening here.
It'll be the peer group narcissistic performances that will eventually erode the patience and tolerance of others. To date the bullying and intimidation keeps most of them silent. But it never takes long for the overreach to kick in. Different pronouns each day week, continual accusations of alleged transphobia for wrong think/speak, dramatic pronouncements and the eternal self involved performances and eventually the grounded kids will walk away. It'll take a while as there are too many self invested adults who are being allowed to interfere in schools and promote the madness. But these levels of self absorption and coercive control of others can't be sustained and most kids with balanced views will eventually move on.

My 14 yo DD likes to show me the ridiculous pronoun combinations people use on Twitter from time to time. She’s fully GC, as are both her older brothers. But I’m sure that’s just from having heated discussions with me about it - not that any of them were onboard with it but they did think I was somehow out of line for my strong opinions until I showed them photos and articles to demonstrate that I’m not a “hateful bigot” for excluding male people from my feminism.

I imagine those whose parents are not as critical have been suckered into it for the time being.

3 teens here- all gc to varying degrees of articulacy.
its the 20-35 yr olds who are totally lost to the ideology ime.

There are apparently two girls in my daughter's scout group who change their pronouns regularly. My daughter and all the others thing they are loony and attention seeking.

Each rising cohort likes to carve its own space and differeantiate from the lot that came before. Remember when 'gay' was a derogatory adjective for anything deemed worthy and virtuous, a reaction to top-down moralising.

Hmm, I dunno. Have a young pre-teen and it’s firmly the in-thing right now to be anti-JKR, gender non-conforming and everyone pronouned up the yin-yang. I tread carefully. Hopefully as PPs say the irritating flip-flopping over gender woo will shed some light as their maturity develops. Fingers crossed.

My DD14 finds all the labels and pronouns very tedious but generally keeps her opinions to herself amongst friends. But she reckons even silence on this issue is perceived...she hasn't been challenged yet but some of her closest friends are very in thrall and it's not something she wants to fall out over. But if pushed I doubt she would pretend.

I wonder whether there's going to be a break in attitudes among the young between those who learned about the gender identity ideology as part of the whole LGBTQQIAAP+ package, and so realise they have to go along with it in order not to be "hateful", and the younger ones for whom it's their lived experience of it playing out at school and in their friendship groups and them having to deal with fragile and aggressive attention seekers.

My DS (17) thinks it’s all total nonsense. He very much believes that everyone should present however they like - he’s a bit quirky himself - but they can’t change sex.

We’ve chatted a bit about the issues the whole ideology raises. He says he’d feel uncomfortable sharing a toilet with a trans boy particularly if they stood at the urinals (and presumable used a she-wee), this has yet to happen at college though. Interestingly the trans boys at college (there are several) don’t want to use the boys facilities but the trans girl (there is one) doing a sports subject does wish to use the female changing facilities, so far the college have resisted. He’s quite level headed and understands that that his discomfort at sharing facilities with a trans boy would be for vastly different reasons to a woman’s discomfort at having to share female facilities with trans women.

I’m unable to find anything on the college website with regards to stonewall which is heartening and a bit of Internet stalking tells me the college principal loves JKR .

@Bellinisurge - I hope that people will understand that many of the LGB (and QT possibly?) community have not been the drivers of this ideology. My daughters are fully accepting and inclusive of gay and lesbian people and actually they also have a Transgender teacher who is one of their favourite teachers at school. I hope I am raising them to be compassionate and thoughtful people. To my mind we can be inclusive without denying biology and steamrolling over women's rights, and that forms the basis of many of our discussions.