Telegraph: Top ballet schools ditching leotards to help transgender dancers

LobsterNapkin yes I agree. It's important that teachers can see and correct posture, position etc.

It's, as others have said, extraordinary how this key principle of ballet suddenly doesn't seem to be as important as it was.

Dancing since he was 14!

Ballet is a discipline that is built around the physical differences between male and female performers. It is, visually, a study in the extremes of gender stereotypes, whilst pushing the bodies of both to the extreme limits of strength and grace.

The Male Swan Lake showed that really clearly. It was brilliant, but the swans teetered on the edge of parody specifically because of the wholly natural differences in physiology - that darned Q angle for a start.

Anyone fancy reworking centuries of training and choreography?

I've thought for a while though it would be nice to have a little flexibility. Plenty of young girls quit ballet as young teens and pre-teens because they are not ready yet for tampons and they don't want to wear a leotard with a pad. And while it isn't common, my son eventually gave up ballet because he didn't like the feeling of the boys tight pants, something he likely would have grown out of eventually.

Is there anything at all that this ideology hasn't infected?

Quite. There was a feature on the BBC website with a male dancer recently from New Adventures, who referred to the swans in Bourne's Swan Lake as being 'male identified dancers'....

Right. So if I as a female dancer decided that I identified as a man tomorrow would they let me dance, topless, in the corps of swans in the required costume?
I doubt it. They'd probably have to stop doing matinees 😅

I had a run in with someone from the Rambert, this fresh new layer of ghastliness is absolutely no surprise to me. The London dance world is batshit central.

Everything.

In Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake, which was wonderful, it was made clear that some of the roles were taken by men. No one pretended that they were women.

Originally Rambert was very classical and quite a few people went into classical companies. Then it moved to a more contemporary school but with classical training still very much part of the timetable. It’s now swinging back to its more contemporary leanings with added woke.

Central was always very much a classical ballet school, but in the last 5-6 years things have changed dramatically with a lot of the teachers being pushed out and newer teachers being brought in who won’t challenge the new way of thinking. It’s becoming heavily linked to New Adventures, not necessarily a bad thing, but the classical element is not as valued as it was.

My concern is that the students will become to scared to speak up or discuss how they feel about what’s happening as they will be called bigots etc. It’s such a small industry and everyone knows everyone. People will agree with these new trans rules purely through fear.

I was in the industry for over 20 years both as a dancer and a choreographer and it’s a very different place to when I first started out.

It affects only boys identifying as girls. Transgirls don't need to tuck.

Rambert used to be 50% classical, 50% contemporary, with the classical element taught very traditionally. A lot of their timetable was made up of pointe, men's class, solos, repertoire, pas de deux etc. I know of a few people that went on to classical careers afterwards (although not the majority). Their website still claims this 50/50 split, although I wouldn't be particularly surprised to hear that things may have changed under the current director.

I can't imagine how this change could not negatively impact training at Central unless that has become less classical as well? A massive shame in both cases, if true.

Sorry to hear that this sort of thing pushed you to retire. If it carries on much longer I'm sure you won't be the only one.

I am an ex professional ballet dancer. I trained at Laban and undertook my Masters at Central.

To be honest I’m not surprised by this at all. There will have been overwhelming pressure from the students and some of the very very ‘woke’ teachers. I wouldn’t call these schools ballet schools, they lean more towards contemporary apart from Central which for a long while was very much a classical ballet training ground.

I think this is all tied up in them trying to shed their elitist labelling. It won’t cause to many issue within the contemporary dance world but I have no idea how this will work in the classical world. It’s imperative to be in a leotard and tights as it’s how we learn the form and understand how are muscles are working/the mistakes we are making/the shapes and lines we are creating.

I retired in 2018 as it hadn’t gotten to the point where I couldn’t keep my mouth shut any longer on the all encompassing wokery that has taken over the arts. I was scared to say anything

What's the aim here? To conceal that they are male? They'd have to perform behind a screen to achieve that, surely...

Far too risky - a lot of the industry is captured. (See quote from Rojo above as an example).

But, in the case of the middle aged, biological male using the women's changing room situation I mentioned above, when I saw it happen all the women in the changing room at the time (a range of ages and backgrounds, some pro some not) were talking in hushed voices about it when he left. All were extremely uncomfortable. All spoke of the efforts others had made to try and change it only to be silenced.

It is similar with sexual assault - very few have said anything publicly about the recent cases. The silence has been absolutely deafening except from those defending the alleged perpetrator. This was particularly toxic following Scarlett's death. There is also a Facebook page set up in support of Chang with prominent figures from the ballet world (mostly Cuban but by no means all) campaigning for his innocence and calling the victims liars. If you Google 'justicia' you will probably find it.

In this climate it is very difficult for anyone still hoping to have or maintain a career to put their heads above the parapet. Students are particularly vulnerable as they have the most to lose.

Truly appalling isn’t it @TerrifiedDancer?

Tucking? But I thought ‘some women have penises - get over it’. I can’t keep up.

"In the Abigail Shrier example above - an actual man with a transman's physique, unable to lift a woman - would not have gotten into that position, right?"

Correct.

That's the first case I've heard of of a transman, all the ones I've been aware of have been transwomen or (male) non binary people. But yes, in the vast majority of cases it would be bypassing the normal criteria.

"I would question though whether the female body could take doing the leaps and lifts required in training and on show without higher injury, particularly at such times during menstrual cycle when it has been identified that hormones change connective tissues etc."

Those female dancers who have a talent for jumping could do the jumps (some already do, but this is on their own steam - they have no help with learning how to do tours en l'air etc from their schools or companies). Of course the majority may not jump as high but there are always exceptions - Osipova springs to mind as having a particularly high jump.

The lifts are quite a different matter and would be dangerous.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/male-dancer-gender-fluid-wins-part-english-national-ballets/?utm_source=pocket-app&utm_medium=share

the English National Ballet's latest production of The Sleeping Beauty may have won rave reviews from the critics, members of the audience may be unaware they are also witnessing a little bit of stage history.

Because for the first time in the modern era, a male dancer - who identifies as being 'gender fluid' - is performing as part of the female ensemble.

Chase Johnsey, 32, an American, who has been dancing since the age of 14, won his part as a ballerina, after impressing Tamara Rojo - the director of the English National Ballet - with his grit and determination to be accepted for his dancing rather than for his sex.

She (the director, Tamara Rojo) has insisted that his appointment is not a publicity stunt, but is instead intended to "reflect the world we live in".

Ms Rojo added: “I think ballet can be the perfect environment for gender fluidity. We are in a position where we could open up roles for lots of people.”

[quote FeatheredHope]Thank you @TerrifiedDancer those are superb posts. And I agree totally and utterly.

Let us of forget, the world of dance is not somehow magically from safe sexual assault charges and like many organisations, has not always been exactly prompt or effective in dealing with them. These headlines are all from just the last 12 months:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-57073643

www.boston.com/news/local-news/2021/08/03/boston-ballet-dancer-accuses-former-dance-teacher-of-sexual-assault-in-lawsuit/

www.mylondon.news/news/north-london-news/london-professional-ballet-dancer-22-20212853

www.theweek.co.uk/105452/royal-ballet-sex-scandal-who-is-liam-scarlett[/quote]
Here are some more:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50264895
What reports of the above case fail to mention is that he was on the ballet staff of one of the major companies for years (not the one he is associated with in the article as a performer).

www.khsu.org/post/dance-coach-s-molestation-case-headed-retrial-following-hung-jury#stream/0

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/scatx/some-days-the-bomb-goes-off

www.firstpost.com/world/switzerlands-bejart-ballet-lausanne-company-faces-probe-over-allegations-of-drug-abuse-and-harassment-9712231.html

Also the ongoing Waterbury case.

It is worth mentioning that these two cases allege that perpetrator burst in on them in the changing room or shower:

www.salon.com/2018/01/08/peter-martins-sexual-misconduct-wilhelmina-frankfurt/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/former-english-national-ballet-dancer-scared-me-in-the-shower-hvpx90fzq

The second one was convicted of 13 out of 14 charges in court, but I don't know if the shower charge was one of the 13.

Wouldnt the steps etc be designed for different sex bodies - female hip configuration vs male for example, limb ratio, flexibility (okay a specific stereotype of female hip config etc) ?

Even more than that - a very specific type of body of each sex.

In the Abigail Shrier example above - an actual man with a transman's physique, unable to lift a woman - would not have gotten into that position, right?

Are they doing the nonsensical thing of letting a woman in based on female criteria, then letting them play a male part? And vice-versa? If you're trying to play as a particular sex, you need to be judged as that sex.

So transwomen will almost invariably be too big, and transmen too small. No?

If they're bypassing normal rules for these "trans" people, then that would be clear sex-based discrimination, right? Women being judged more strictly than men for female roles, and men being judged more strictly than women for male roles?

She gave up ballet and moved to other forms of dance/musical theatre because an injury meant she was no longer able to do pointe. She’s perfectly capable of performing the men’s jumps.

That’s interesting that she could match the adult male jumps. Could she lift an adult sized female dancer too?

I would question though whether the female body could take doing the leaps and lifts required in training and on show without higher injury, particularly at such times during menstrual cycle when it has been identified that hormones change connective tissues etc.

A group of sister schools teaching ballet and contemporary dance have pledged to support the transition of transgender students who may be self-conscious about their bodies

Right-o, because women and girls are of course famous for never having any self esteem issues around their body.

I think what these organisations mean is ‘we didn’t give a shit when it was just females being impacted, it now there is the slightest possibility that it could impact a boy? Well we looked to change that right away’

Maybe what would readdress things in the US would be if a trans male dropped a female and she was seriously injured?

Seriously? grin

Please tell me this was America or Canada, and not any rational part of the world

The book is set in North America, but I’m not sure what would stop a ballet company being “inclusive” elsewhere. Common sense - that a female won’t be strong enough to take a male role - seems to be long gone.

My daughter had friends at Ballet West. She also has friends in most of the schools mentioned in the OP. It is truly terrifying.

She gave up ballet and moved to other forms of dance/musical theatre because an injury meant she was no longer able to do pointe. She’s perfectly capable of performing the men’s jumps.