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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Megan Murphy is on Joe Rogan

87 replies

miri1985 · 20/08/2021 21:24

Full ep here: open.spotify.com/episode/6yc6AIMf3JqLWygLQJ4Wrg

Short clip:

OP posts:
NutellaEllaElla · 04/11/2021 20:51

@MalagaNights

I think the gender issue caused me to see how destructive identity politics is when it becomes ideological.

Whereas previously it felt like defending marginalised groups, so all good.
It's been revealed now as how this can become ideological and just another power game.

I think I then started to see some aspects of feminism as ideological as well and has also impacted on how I see the BLM movement.

I think 5 years ago I'd have naively seen all this as just positive championing of marginalised groups.

Now I see more destructive forces.

@MalagaNights i'm really interested in this, would you say more? The destructive ideological side of Feminism?
Clymene · 04/11/2021 20:26

I haven't watched it and no I haven't found my politics have changed. I have stopped following Murphy though since she became a rabid anti-vaxxer. I have no time for conspiracy theorists.

LobsterNapkin · 04/11/2021 20:25

Being progressive does not mean accepting regressive and conservative things simply because some progressives say they are progressive!

What does that really mean, though? Progress towards what? What does it matter if something is conservative or not?

In a significant way, political conservatism is about Chesterton's fence. Society is a complex system, like an ecology, that is difficult to analyze. Many things have functionality that we don't see, and changes have all kinds of long-term implications, including in terms of changing the structure of our thinking, that we don't expect. So tread carefully.

The outcomes of gender ideology, and the things that led to it, have made people take more notice of that, as they see it at work.

LobsterNapkin · 04/11/2021 20:11

It reminds me a bit of Mary Harrington's essay this week, where she says that feminism became undermined because it embraced liberal individualism rather than the kind of social understanding that underpinned the earlier women's movement and leftist social movements. And, I'd add, also traditional conservatism.

Once you see that progressives are actually liberals, (and I don't mean fans of liberal democracy but rather fairly radical individualists,) which is an ideology that is not all that compatible with the left or conservatism, it shatters political tribalism under the current model.

There has been almost no real political representation for old style leftists or conservatives for about 40 years, and people became used to that. But it's no longer possible to avoid seeing it for many. And at this particular moment, most of the "left" parties seem to be moving farther and farther into toxic identity politics which are fundamentally apologetics for global capitalism, while many of the conservative parties are looking at traditionally leftist things like movement of labour, protection of industry and workers, and even pro-union legislation.

So - no wonder people who saw themselves as being on the left, once their eyes are opened to what is going on, are rethinking.

MalagaNights · 04/11/2021 16:54

I think the gender issue caused me to see how destructive identity politics is when it becomes ideological.

Whereas previously it felt like defending marginalised groups, so all good.
It's been revealed now as how this can become ideological and just another power game.

I think I then started to see some aspects of feminism as ideological as well and has also impacted on how I see the BLM movement.

I think 5 years ago I'd have naively seen all this as just positive championing of marginalised groups.

Now I see more destructive forces.

Fariha31 · 04/11/2021 13:34

Someone said to me today;
'being on the left has increasingly involved a moralistic reflex rather than clear, analytical thinking'.

Fariha31 · 04/11/2021 13:31

I think the schock of seeing the 'left' stab women in the back with such vehemence has made people question a lot of things.
I have questioned some aspects of Feminism too (and I would not describe myself as 'on the left' anymore, but Im in good company as Glen Greenwald also says similar)
I think we are only at the begining of seeing the things Genderism has destroyed.

LaetitiaASD · 04/11/2021 13:31

@MalagaNights

Has anyone listened to this?

She talks about not being a radical feminist, how she no longer uses the term patriarchy, how she's moved from being left wing to now voting conservative and would have voted for Trump over Biden.

She talks about how some feminists are now attacking her.

She's left Canada and moved to Mexico because of her concerns with free speech and authoritarianism.

Anyone else heard this, or resonate with her move away from some femininist ideology and current 'progressive' ideology?

It resonates with me and I think the trans issue has been central in both these respects.

Being progressive does not mean accepting regressive and conservative things simply because some progressives say they are progressive!
IDanielRadcliffe · 04/11/2021 13:22

I haven’t listened yet Malaga but I can identify with some of that, or at least it’s made me rethink a lot. I find current ‘progressives’ frankly scary in some respects.

MalagaNights · 04/11/2021 12:47

Has anyone listened to this?

She talks about not being a radical feminist, how she no longer uses the term patriarchy, how she's moved from being left wing to now voting conservative and would have voted for Trump over Biden.

She talks about how some feminists are now attacking her.

She's left Canada and moved to Mexico because of her concerns with free speech and authoritarianism.

Anyone else heard this, or resonate with her move away from some femininist ideology and current 'progressive' ideology?

It resonates with me and I think the trans issue has been central in both these respects.

Mango1982 · 22/08/2021 20:05

Watching it now love joe

ScreamingMeMe · 20/08/2021 22:00

Ahhh excellent.

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