10yo Daughter wants to go to pride

Also @trancepants , protest at these concerns all you want. It's not going to make a difference to anyone here, and I stand by my scepticism regarding your use of 'terf' and 'hysterical'.

Pride has been hijacked by transactivists and big companies all marching to prove their diversity. It's attended by fewer and fewer actual gay lesbian and bisexual people

willing to engage in the same victim punishing.

Okey-dokey!

People or parents putting their children's welfare first is 'victim punishing'? I think you're the one who's wilfully ignorant.

HoppingGreen Yes, I was visiting the science and industry museum one day and stepped outside one of the buildings to find it going by, I was enjoying the music and spectacle with my two children (under 5) for a bit until one particularly forthright participant locked eyes with me put his split fingers to his lips and mimed some very enthusiastic oral sex on a female at me, he wasn't being playful. Luckily the kids were oblivious but my thought was what a twat and it rather took the shine off things.

Ok, @Earthsight, you've got me. I'm a Pride stall holding TRA terf-basher!!!! You gotcha-d me!

That's definitely far, far more likely than me being someone who has real and justified concerns about AGP men in women's spaces. Who knows too many abusive men will use 'inclusive' legislation to gain access to vulnerable women and children. Who is deeply concerned about the affirmation model leading to medical intervention on children which will almost certainly lead to lifelong negative physical consequences that they are not informed about. That even if they never feel a need to detransition, that their bone health and sexual organs are physically compromised. That their ability to have a satisfying sex life and to be honest to even find a partner will be severely compromised.

But while I have all of those concerns, I'm not willing to in any way whatsoever set back the rights and acceptance that lesbian women and gay men have achieved in the last 50 years. Even if those women and men haven't yet recognised that there is a strong possibility their existence and achievements are being high-jacked, by those with potentially worrisome intent. I'm not willing to let them be set back by one fucking iota if i can help it.

As women we all fucking know viscerally how society constantly manages to punish the victims. And if you can't see that that is exactly what is already happening to the gay community, that it is what is being fucking done by posters on here on this thread, then you are being wilfully ignorant and on some level just willing to engage in the same victim punishing.

Unfortunately society has not changed enough that Pride has stopped having a necessary function. Pride is still really important and necessary to people who constantly have to wonder if something at the essence of their being may cause them to be rejected or held at arms length. Those of us who have already recognised that some awful people are trying to/are using Pride to further their own pretty worrisome agendas, should be standing shoulder to shoulder with the people who Pride is for. Not abandoning them because they maybe haven't had the emotional distance or negative personal experiences yet to see it. And certainly not abandoning all of the Pride events where there is literally nothing problematic at all.

speak to other people that have attended, email the organisers, look up the thousands of photos and videos from previous years

Feel free to look up those thousands of photos and videos in your own time.

like a pp poster said it does seem like there's an agenda on here

Yes, I think we all see what the agenda is here - belittling the womenz who are worrying their pretty little heads about safeguarding and about things they have imagined.

Maybe I should, if checking a fb page is too difficult for you. I mean I definitely believe you need some help reigning in since you do seem to love imagining things. Imaginary insulting emails and kink displays at the hundreds of events every year where there are none. Like a pp poster said it does seem like there's an agenda on here.

[quote EarthSight]@trancepants Or...........they could just not go to Pride events until the kink displays go away. How it'a even legal to attract or allow children to attend such events it's beyond me. It's the sexualisation of children in plain sight and is a fab day out for paedophiles I'm sure.

People survive without going to every single carnival or festival. It's possible to grow up into being a non-homophobic adult without having attended any event like that. The organisers will probably try to tie some link between the two so they can increase their attendance figures, but it's not necessary or essential.[/quote]
The point is there are many, many, many Pride events where the kink displays can't go away, because they never even started. Plenty of events run by people who know what is and isn't appropriate to be at an event they advertise as open for families to attend. How the actual hell does shunning the organisers and participants of well planned, thoughtful, often generous events get any message to the well meaning fools and those with suspicious agendas at completely different events?

Because that's what you are advocating. Shun people who have historically been shunned because some other people, in another city, who may share traits with them are doing something you don't like. This thread is really fucking messed up. It is exactly the kind of thing that TRAs will use to classify terfs as homophobes. Because honestly, there is a very, very fine line being walked here that is teetering into homophobic territory. Or at the very least into hysterical accusations about protecting children. Anyone who reads a thread like this and then goes to a perfectly normal family Pride event where their kids wave rainbow flags and spends the afternoon on a bouncy castle while young women hold hands on the grass. And everyone is happy and wholesome, are going to dismiss everything else anyone here has to say.

Also, had to laugh at the 'worthwhile research'. 😂

[quote SirenSays]@5zeds only if you're a bit of a muppet and don't do any worthwhile research. Surely as a parent you'd speak to other people that have attended, email the organisers, look up the thousands of photos and videos from previous years...[/quote]
@SirenSays I'd rather be a responsible adult and not let children attend events which have a strong link with puppy play or kink. As for emailing the organisers and doing that research, perhaps you could offer to do that for people as a free, charitable service?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. I'd rather play it safe when it comes to looking after children. Pretty sure the average country fair don't have kink puppies in the jam-making competition tent.

If that makes me a muppet then I'm happy to be one.

@trancepants Or...........they could just not go to Pride events until the kink displays go away. How it'a even legal to attract or allow children to attend such events it's beyond me. It's the sexualisation of children in plain sight and is a fab day out for paedophiles I'm sure.

People survive without going to every single carnival or festival. It's possible to grow up into being a non-homophobic adult without having attended any event like that. The organisers will probably try to tie some link between the two so they can increase their attendance figures, but it's not necessary or essential.

Yes, kids grow up fast, but men in leather or doggy outfits shouldn't be something you can knowingly or collectively laugh at with a 10 year old!

You are trying to have a sophisticated argument with a child. If you go in too strong, this coukd really backfire on you. Instead of convincing her, I would take a step back and say 'this is what I believe and why'. That allows her room to think about your points more objectively. If she feels dominated or smothered by your opinions, she may well go in the opposite direction.

Why are you talking to her about men in doggy outfits???? It's almost like you think of her as an adult. Yes, kids grow up fact, but men in leather or doggy outfits shouldn't not be something you can knowingly or collectively laugh at with a 10 year old! There's something very wrong there.

What kind of school does she go to? Also, does she have access to Tumblr? Either at home or at her friends' houses? I wouldn't be surprised if the sudden interest in flags and Pride was due to that.

Unless she identifies with all of this for another reason, it sounds like she's interested in visual branding and symbolism. That's what all those flags are about - it's visual branding that companies , countries and most groups use the same method to create an identity for themselves. I'm nit sure if there are an age-appropriate books on the subject but you might want to have a look.

My parents would just have said no and that I could go when I was old enough to take myself. Same would have applied to any festival, carnival, theme park etc. You don’t have to “ban” something to not want to go to it.

trancepants

I think my comment was directed at SirenSays
only if you're a bit of a muppet and don't do any worthwhile research. Surely as a parent you'd speak to other people that have attended, email the organisers, look up the thousands of photos and videos from previous years...

She's 10 - just say no if you are not comfortable. Why debate it ?

That said, maybe Pride should be family friendly!!! they are in the street..... if you can't take your 10yo to it, what about the people who just happen to be walking down the street and didn't know there was a march going on?

Would you be ok if she said she wanted to watch a very violent/gory movie or porn?! Of course not. It's definitely banned for very good reasons

Ten is VERY young. There are loads of other days out that I bet she'd enjoy far more, when it boils down to it.

I suppose you could maybe tell her that you'll consider it next year, when she's at secondary school, but possibly sneak a visit yourself & see what you think.

I wouldn't. In my country Pride over the last number of years has made a habit of demanding organisations like libraries get rid of books they don't like or refuse to rent space to people they don't like. Plus they are huge supporters of idiotic gender ideology. To me it's basically supporting an organisation that's actively working against freedom of thought in the most practical and concrete sense way.

Even apart from that, they way Pride seems to think about sexuality is within the framework of Critical Theory, and is very insistent that being non-discriminatory means supporting specific political views (a certain view of trans rights being one) and that's not what I want my kids to absorb. Nor am I keen on the general tone of the event, which is always touted as family friendly here, but in actually is essentially a sort of sex festival where "Love Is Love" is all over the place.

But what's irking me here is this underlying idea that meticulously going through available photos of who turned up to previous years' events tells you who will turn up this year and what they will do!

I think experience of the previous events by the same organisers, in the same town will mean you can predict what the next one will be like with high accuracy. But there will always be an element of chaos. You can never know who will attend this year. It's actual people meeting up, not a pre-scripted play.

Why would it irk you when I specifically said there are no guarantees. Stated I had found myself with my child at an unsuitable event, though because of religious evangelism. And described what I look out for at Pride events and know exactly what would make me remove him immediately?