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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Green Party leader to 'welcome politically homeless women'

281 replies

GreenGretel · 18/08/2021 11:20

A candidate in the Green Party election contest wants to welcome back women who have been left politically homeless by the assault on sex-based rights.

I'd urge any Green-minded people to join or re-join the party by 27th Aug in order to vote for Shahrar Ali. You can join (if only temporarily) for as little as £13 here: join.greenparty.org.uk/

Shahrar Ali stands a good chance of winning, having previously been deputy leader and gaining 24% of first-preference votes in 2020. He is speaking up unequivocally for women's sex-based rights. You can read his full statement on Facebook here: www.facebook.com/ShahrarAliGreenParty/posts/190051301345352.

He is also in the Guardian here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/17/green-transgender-rights-row-leadership-shahrar-ali-sian-berry

If Shahrar wins, he will be the first leader of a British political party willing to stand up to gender identity ideology.

A Green Party leader to 'welcome politically homeless women'
OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 25/08/2021 01:54

There's a problem with anti-Semitism in the greens?

Fucking hell I didn't know that.

Well that's another massive reason it's a no from me.

Jewish people having to do roadshows to persuade people that they aren't .

Fucks sake.

LangClegsInSpace · 25/08/2021 00:48

The question they were asked is:

What do you believe to be the best strategy to tackle antisemitism, transphobia, and any other forms of discrimination in the party?

Very rough summary of those parts of their answers that had to do with 'transphobia' -

TO: need accountability to shut down transphobic hate speech, get people educated. Our campaign has reached out to LGBTQIA+ community, that's why people are flooding into the party, need to make sure we don't have transphobia locking those people out. Need to be prepared to listen & change. Consult liberation groups weekly to be better spokespeople for them and amplify their struggles

MH: Issue has polarised groups in the party threatening party unity, need to find strategies to deal with it. Not sure transphobia is a particular problem within the party, very few would say they couldn't tolerate trans. Two sides that are essentially shouting at each other. Aware of how much time the disciplinary committee has had to deal with it. Need to deal with it, not sweep it under the carpet, not leave the shouting going on, not take sides. Have a member's assembly, bring people together, random group selected, experts from both sides. Reach a position of balance on how we interpret implications of the statement in our policy - TMAM, TWAW, because implications are complex.

SA: Beg to differ with Martin's portrayal / caricature - too convenient to say people in a slanging match. I find women, while they may be vocal and are being oppressed in their right to speak their minds, are generally extremely polite. Whereas opposition, a vocal minority who are extremely nasty. I've survived many complaints, how I survived is the winning strategy - we speak our minds maturely, moderated by all means, and we speak truth. Need to define terms carefully & closely. Need to recognise that sometimes allegations are used as weapons to avoid difficult conversations & negotiations around balance which needs to be struck, e.g. making changes to women's same sex spaces. Unthinkable that Andy Whiteman had to resign because he had to betray his conscience. He was bullied by the party, according to his report, because he couldn't vote for amendment that would allow rape victims to choose to be examined by person of the same sex. I regard that as a basic dignity. Elect a leader who hasn't been sitting on the fence or keeping quiet. I'm not going to stand by when people in politics receiving death threats like JKR. You want a leader who's going to speak mind truthfully.

AG: Large proportion of transphobia borne of ignorance It's often governments around the world that cause this kind of problem, and so too it is with transphobia. People are afraid of things they don't understand, it's all about education. People need to be told, or informed and have discussions about what it is they're opposing and why, and speak their minds so we can understand where they're coming from, and so they too can understand the reasons why what they're doing is not in the best interests, not only of the people they're abusing, but themselves in the long term.

CD: Need to take clear, consistent line in support of trans rights internally and externally. That includes acknowledging that UK is in grip of a bitter so-called culture war over trans rights, green party sadly not immune. Not going to be fixed overnight. Things we can do to make party more welcoming & inclusive - create spaces where people can learn and engage. Support the party's liberation & policy groups to facilitate workshops & training to help members understand each other, party policy, our shared mission. Jewish greens have modelled this - virtual roadshows touring to local parties. Carefully facilitated space where there's no such thing as a stupid question. More traing and conversations to allow people to learn & share lived experiences & relate on a human level. Sometimes learning & discussion not enough, we have to be clear abuse, harassment, hate speech have no place in our movement. Need to properly resource disciplinary committee so eveyone has confidence in process. End long delays in decision making, provide adequate traing & resources for volunteers on that committee.

LangClegsInSpace · 24/08/2021 23:25

The recording of yesterday's hustings is up on the member's site for those who missed it.

members.greenparty.org.uk/your-vote-counts/internal-elections-2021/leadership

ArabellaScott · 24/08/2021 21:56

Good to hear, Gretel.

GreenGretel · 24/08/2021 12:56

Here's some excerpts from last night's hustings:
"This party has become hostile to women who want to talk about same-sex spaces"
"There is nothing transphobic about talking about the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act"
More at: twitter.com/sion___jones/status/1429866076834254851

OP posts:
MidCenturyClegs · 24/08/2021 11:22

@NiceGerbil

Not for me. It's good someone is bucking the trend but

Greens have no real power..CL was their only MP? Not sure if they have any now.

Handling of challenor.

Many statements from key greens TWAW.

Doubt will get in.

Their policies around 'sex work' are abysmal. Started s thread a little while ago.

What about the sodding environment?

I've been a paid up member in the past. Labour too.

Not getting my cash. Sorry.

CL is still the Green's only MP. Not sure where you live but most ppl in the U.K. know this.

It dismays me to hear that women will not give thought to joining a party where there is a chance of having a leader who will support women's rights. It's taken a lot of effort from women and allied men to get this far, yet we are brought down with a sneer.

It was Shahrar who raised the safeguarding bell with AC. And Shahrar's 'Stonewall disaffiliation motion' has just been published as being the first in the agenda for upcoming conference.

If we say the Greens have no chance so why bother then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's saddening that women are giving up on their own.

RandomGreenBloke · 24/08/2021 10:51

@Bluowl Thanks, that's interesting. I'm not so tied to this issue that I'm put off by MH sidestepping the whole mess. I am put off by anyone telling me TWAW, though, especially if they're militant about it. Omond & Womack would be a total disaster for the party, Denyer & Ramsay almost as bad. Very much hoping for an upset

Bluowl · 24/08/2021 10:20

@RandomGreenbloke You've ruled out the right ones! They only allowed one of the two Co Leader applicants to speak at this one 😒 so TR wasn't speaking. MH was impressive and measured. Slightly acknowledged the issues not as much as I'd liked but clearly a decent bloke. Only SA addressed it head on. This is all in my view, obviously others may have different views. Those you've ruled out are the expected winners, eg one of the pairs. Would be great to have an unexpected win. Its happened before when Peter Cranie was favourite and lost to Bennett. Next hustings Thursday I think.

CrossPurposes · 24/08/2021 09:35

@NiceGerbil "CL was their only MP? Not sure if they have any now."

Caroline Lucas is still their only MP increasing her number of votes in every election.

Puffincrossing · 24/08/2021 09:07

nicegerbil I completely agree with everything you have just said and it makes me reluctant to join. However, getting a GC leader could change the GP. Hopefully a lot of the TWAW believers would leave and by being part of that I might be able to change the party from within. I absolutely don't think they have any chance of ever holding any real power but I think that other political parties will be watching, if they see a surge of support for GC views they may realise it's time to drop the make believe stuff. For the small cost of membership I think it's worth a try, yes they might blow it all on stuff I disagree with but, as you say, they have no power, so won't actually impact on any legislation.

RandomGreenBloke · 24/08/2021 08:41

@Bluowl

I just rejoined, I didn't want to but there are so many who have been fighting hard on this in GP. To say they have been risking their sanity is not an understatement. Just watched the 1st hustings. Apart from SA all candidates appear to live in a world where misogyny does not exist and transphobe roam the streets. 2,3 women are not murdered every week. I'd love to be on their planet rather than mine. Another candidate MH was good, and has a brilliant Co stander, but slipped up on 'the' question. Sadly.
What did MH say about the trans issue? Did Tina Rothery have anything to say on it? What about Ashley Gunstock? I've been a GP member for a few years but didn't have time to catch the hustings. Already ruled out voting for Omond, Womack, Denyer and Ramsay. I liked the look of Rothery and was optimistic she'd also be reasonable on this issue.
NiceGerbil · 24/08/2021 02:51

Not for me. It's good someone is bucking the trend but

Greens have no real power..CL was their only MP? Not sure if they have any now.

Handling of challenor.

Many statements from key greens TWAW.

Doubt will get in.

Their policies around 'sex work' are abysmal. Started s thread a little while ago.

What about the sodding environment?

I've been a paid up member in the past. Labour too.

Not getting my cash. Sorry.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 23/08/2021 22:53

Just joined. Am an environmental activist at local level but resisted joining/voting Green due to their obsession with trans ideology. But here's someone who might just pull the party out of the mire of anti-science identity rhetoric and point it back to where it should be - raising the alarm about the climate emergency.

Bluowl · 23/08/2021 20:54

I just rejoined, I didn't want to but there are so many who have been fighting hard on this in GP. To say they have been risking their sanity is not an understatement. Just watched the 1st hustings. Apart from SA all candidates appear to live in a world where misogyny does not exist and transphobe roam the streets. 2,3 women are not murdered every week. I'd love to be on their planet rather than mine. Another candidate MH was good, and has a brilliant Co stander, but slipped up on 'the' question. Sadly.

Violetparis · 23/08/2021 18:29

I left Labour last year for a number of reasons, just joined The Green Party to vote for Shahrar Ali.

Bluowl · 23/08/2021 16:18

@OldTurtleNewShell look up the anti fracking nanas. One of the Co founders is also standing.

OldTurtleNewShell · 23/08/2021 14:13

Ah, it seems that Carla Denyer doesn't accept that there is any conflict.
So that's answered. twitter.com/carla_denyer/status/1285568840458526720

OldTurtleNewShell · 23/08/2021 14:10

The Guardian's covered the election here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/23/green-party-steps-into-unknown-with-latest-leadership-election

They seem to think it's going to be Carla Denyer/Adrian Ramsay vs Womack/Omond and aren't expecting much from Shahrar Ali.

Does anyone know Denyer or Ramsay's position on women's rights? Or the other candidates? I'm not sure who I'd put for secondary preferences.

Carriemac · 23/08/2021 13:39

I've joined and hope that my vote will make a difference

teawamutu · 23/08/2021 12:39

Hopefully the various TWAW chanting candidates will split the tra vote.

TheGoogleMum · 23/08/2021 11:45

To be honest I don't think he will win but I keep seeing bits of Internet with lots of people saying they have joined to vote for him so there is some hope. If he managed 24% of vote last time and now even more people realise what's going on in theory he should do better this time? Depends how many who voted previously now wouldn't too I suppose. The TRAs are very vocal and GC voices are much quieter. I reckon of the 2000 new members a lot are probably us?

ArabellaScott · 23/08/2021 11:35

Many, if not most people are highly unlikely to get involved publically in debates on gender identity/women's rights. Who wants to call down the wrath of the TRAs or get embroiled in a pile-on on social media?

So if you're looking at social media/FB, you will not hear very much in defence of 'gender critical' views, or even women's rights.

Speaking to people outside of the screen-based social circles, though, you're highly likely to find a far greater range of views.

The proof will come at the ballot box.

cheeseismydownfall · 23/08/2021 11:28

Have just signed up!

Helmetbymidnight · 23/08/2021 10:40

I suppose they will - afaik they were very dedicated to environmental action but their hatred of 'terfs' was ...palpable.
Going by that debate alone, I don't think Shahrar stands a chance.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2021 10:19

I imagine all those people will leave if Shahrar gets in, unless they're really genuine environmentalists.

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