UK academic sues university after losing role in critical race theory row

[quote Mango1982]**@SmokedDuck* they really don’t It's pretty usual that people use words like these, which are meant to be offensive, in a few different ways*

Their is only one way to take coon or house negro it’s only used in theses circumstances

Black and Asians who date outside their race
Black and Asians who are conservatives
Black and Asians children who do well at school
Black and Asian who don’t think the U.K. is the worst and or think their colour is the least interesting thing about them

Those Rasict terms have not been reclaimed and are not positive the idea that black people sit round calling each other coons 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
I agree with this.

Not RTFT but I have read the news article. She posted racially offensive comments on a public forum in order to offend one specific individual particularly about his race, but she thinks she shouldn't face recourse because of it and she claims to be anti racist?

Yeah nice try. When you throw a ball up in the air it falls back down to the ground. Do people not learn that these days?

Did you actually read the post, The post I responded to wasn't one about such terms being reclaimed, it was saying that they were used to disparage people who were seen as acting white in some way. The poster being responded to said,

When I was growing up in south London the term ‘coconut’ was often used to describe people who were black and spoke too posh (too ‘white’) and/or who dated a white person (particularly for black women who dated white guys).

To which DeeDeeCherry responded,

"More lies".

That is exactly the way I've heard the term coconut, or sometimes Oreo, being used. It's accusing someone of acting "white," and basically accusing them of being a lick-spittle.

@SmokedDuck they really don’t It's pretty usual that people use words like these, which are meant to be offensive, in a few different ways

Their is only one way to take coon or house negro it’s only used in theses circumstances

Black and Asians who date outside their race
Black and Asians who are conservatives
Black and Asians children who do well at school
Black and Asian who don’t think the U.K. is the worst and or think their colour is the least interesting thing about them

Those Rasict terms have not been reclaimed and are not positive the idea that black people sit round calling each other coons 🤷‍♀️

It's pretty usual that people use words like these, which are meant to be offensive, in a few different ways, so it's unlikely there is only one, "correct" usage. Many people are fairly indiscriminate when trying to be offensive.

A slight [merail] which I hope is tangentially relevant. Following various links, I arrived at: The Purity Culture of Progressive Christianity: Additional Reflections

For example, I was in Selma on Sunday for the 50th anniversary of "Bloody Sunday" and the Selma to Montgomery Voting Rights March. And in Selma there were lots of examples of this. For instance, at the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge there was a young African American man screaming at other African Americans calling their lives and alternative forms of activism into question. He rebuked them, saying things like "Ya'll are going home back to your plantations!". What I was witnessing was an intramural squabble between African Americans. And a purity psychology was at work. The same purity psychology that was at work when Malcolm X called Martin Luther King, Jr. an "Uncle Tom" and a "House Negro."

experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-purity-culture-of-progressive_12.html

For me, it highlighted the difficult discussions about the progressive form of any ideology and the inevitable disputes around purity. I had a start of recognition when I read it because of the similar language to that which contributed to this incident. [/merail]

Well Khanom is certainly drawing attention to the activities of The Race Trust here (I think it is based in Manchester).

It appears to be an organisation which encourages the use of racist language in public discourse and has determined that it can blame Critical Race Theory advocates for using such racist language as being part of their 'normal discourse'. Its web site advertises it's 'Racial Literacy Training' but who would have thought that incorporated apparently advocating for the use of racist terms?

I don't imagine there are many CRT advocates willing to back her, and they'll be plenty who will make every effort to dissociate themselves from her, now rather public, views.

Calvin Robinson has highlighted that 'Racial abuse is not a protected characteristic'

Calvin Robinson Twitter

Some contributors to the thread are noting that a ruling in her favour will be confirmation that CRT is racist, and its believers are seeking racism to be a protected characteristic. That's stretching things a bit, but Khanom seems to be hell-bent on pushing CRT under-a-bus.

Anyone wanting to know more about CRT

Very dangerous and I would not want to see it rolled out here

This is one of the big issues. CRT is a US based ideology and is therefore culturally quite different from the UK. I think terms like BAME are coming into disrepute because they lump everyone together. Theories such as this always comes unstuck when played out irl. We are all individuals with our cultural heritage playing a part in who we are. There will come a point when theorising without addressing wider society and its impacts will come into disrepute and this new stuff is showing how wide the cracks are.

Beowulfa

Doesn't this go to show that if you're using words that have historically been offensive slurs, or whose meaning is currently contentious, you should be using them carefully, and in a clear academic context?

ie not casually bandying them around on Twitter.
agreed but she ment to be racist and because she’s Asian and on the left she thought no one would mind 🤷‍♀️

I think the left kid them selves their is no racists on their side and often don’t see the soft Raeism of the left

Black people are not a monolith

You don’t get a free pass of making racial slurs because your not white

Not all black people feel white peoples are oppressing them

Collective guilt based on race is Rasict
So not all black people what to blame all whites because some white people are Rasict

And viewing somone as oppressed based on their colour alone is Rasict

Doesn't this go to show that if you're using words that have historically been offensive slurs, or whose meaning is currently contentious, you should be using them carefully, and in a clear academic context?

ie not casually bandying them around on Twitter.

Hi just wanted to comment I am black this thread had deeply concerned me

Firstly the words coon, house negro uncle to ect

Have NOT been reclaimed they are Racist terms

Secondly the women who is sueing and called Calvin those awful names is NOT Black she is Asian and I can’t believe people are so relaxed about someone trying to get Rasical abuse protected

I often get these terms used on me one for daring to be married to someone white

But increasingly buy progressives who think it’s ok to racially abuse black conservatives
“The uppity black” is hated more than any other

I have to say I get racially abused far more than I ever have the far right

This why the Home Secretary suffers racial abuse and eveyone keeps silent she’s the wrong type of asisn I guess 🤷‍♀️But most Asian like black people are not progressive on most issues so 🤷‍♀️
It’s always bizarre getting called a coconut by someone with a BLM sticker or anti racist sticker in their Twitter bio

Veet
When I was growing up in south London the term ‘coconut’ was often used to describe people who were black and spoke too posh (too ‘white’) and/or who dated a white person (particularly for black women who dated white guys).

More lies.

I'm in South London. White Son-In-Law. DD hasn't been called a coconut.

Coconut is a term some use for Black people who vocally disparage their own, in the quest for 'cookies' from White people.

Don't blame Black people for terms arising from the seediness of racism, enforced divisions and prejudice.

I went to Grammar school nobody ever called me a coconut.

This narrative that if a Black person is aspirational and educated = other Black people call them names, needs to stop. As does the actions of a few meaning all Black people think and act in the same way.

We are not a monolith and it's extremely narrow-minded to present that we are.

In the UK, 'coconut' has been 'reclaimed' in a particularly nasty way by some black youths as a term of abuse for other black youths who work hard at school, dress smartly and have academic ambitions. It is the sort of mentality that led to the murder of 10 year old Damilola Taylor

People need to stop lying on this thread. This is NOT what Coconut means and it isn’t used in this way at all.

Also, Damilola Taylor was killed because his thick murderers thought he was ‘lippy’. It had nothing to do with how he dressed.

I can't figure-out the argument Khanom is using here.

I think she is arguing that being allowed to use the racist language that she reckons someone else in The Race Trust employed, is a protected belief.

Or that using racist terms is standard discourse in critical race theory and so should be protected under the law.

I don't reckon CRT advocates are going to be too pleased with Khanom's efforts, intended-or-not, to saddle CRT with an association with it using racist terms as 'standard discourse'. That's gonna hurt.

I wonder if Khanom has legal representation at the hearing? It sees to be one that if she loses, she generates even more bad publicity for herself and (now very appropriately-named) The Race Trust, and if she wins...she generates even more bad publicity for herself and The Race Trust. I can't imagine many educational establishments would be happy to sign-up with an organisation which reckons using racist language is a protected belief.

I wonder if the BNP or The National Front could have gone down this route?

I don't think this case could succeed because of the Maya case. The Judge overturned the initial case on appeal because Maya's belief was a common belief, not, as the previous Tribunal Chair had stated 'a belief not worthy in a civilised society (near enough). It was not a fringe academic theory. If this case succeeded, it would mean that any thought or action was protected by law unless it was Nazism e.g. Even the case of the Vegan and his belief, he was an extreme, so veganism itself is not protected. This sort of case is so contradictory which if won, could result, either in a deluge of cases on the 'barking mad' scale, clogging up the courts.

On another point CRT came out of Harvard as an alternative to class based discrimination. CRT is said to be the basis of all inequality. This lets the wealthy, privileged Harvardians off the hook, so big banks and businesses love it. It has been imported lock stock over here and doesn't travel well. Those privileged people can still dictate the terms of debate and have moved out of University into top jobs. It's a middle class win, win.

The 65 year old (white) comedian, Bill Maher was asked by a guest to come and do chores, and said the house n*** expression. There was a massive outcry.

When I was growing up in south London the term ‘coconut’ was often used to describe people who were black and spoke too posh (too ‘white’) and/or who dated a white person (particularly for black women who dated white guys). The people using it may have believed that these people were in some way betraying their race and therefore they had the right to call them this, but I never heard it used to describe someone who was in any way denigrating their race for favour with white people.

Just leaving this here:

www.stylist.co.uk/people/coconut-racial-slur/490585

While I don't have direct experience, I would be very surprised if this dynamic doesn't affect black boys.

I know a lot, relatively, about CRT.

Racist, offensive terms are absolutely not justified by CRT, part of CRT, etc.

However, the article also really misrepresents what happened.

Jaysmith71
In the UK, 'coconut' has been 'reclaimed' in a particularly nasty way by some black youths as a term of abuse for other black youths who work hard at school, dress smartly and have academic ambitions. It is the sort of mentality that led to the murder of 10 year old Damilola Taylor

No it hasn't.

Ill-informed racist nonsense.

Coconut is a term that's used for Black people who disparage their own, in favour of trying to gain kudos from White people via doing so.

I don't use the term but don't come here lying about and blaming Black youths.

The boys that killed Damilola Taylor chose their bad actions.

Don't slyly stereotype Black boys due to what was done, because you'd soon squwak if when White youths kill, all are branded culpable.