UK academic sues university after losing role in critical race theory row

There is a lot of debate about the "Protestant Work Ethic" Theory.

Some say it is down to the theology of individualism without the need to seek forgiveness via intermediaries. Others suggest that greater literacy that comes from reading your own Bible is a boon. Others put it down to the weather.

Certainly British Afro-Carribbeans are a good deal more Protestant than most of the population.

As for timekeeping: Japan's trains have this down to a fine art.

@Mango1982 It also seems that black people are not expected to be as intelligent and able to work out how to live within the country they are in (even if they were born there). They don't really see you as one of them, as a person that can think for yourself, you're an outsider and always will be. It seeks division and I can't see anything good coming of it.

You can identify how you like as the transtaliban have shown us however address of your birth on your passport doesn’t lie

This denial of fact a reality has gone we off
I have the right to say I am West Indian as I have a right to say I am Australian

I was born in neither place and for people to blanket prescribe lazy stero types to black people whom very well may have never even visited the West Indies and who are English/British and born on these shores is just

But they do it and don’t even bat a eye lid at their Racist thinking

Yes, this gets to the crux of it. The critical theory people would view the European norm of precise time keeping and the Jamaican norm of relaxed time keeping as equally valid.

but that’s the crux of it the woke Rasict types view black people as Jamaican or West Indian we are British -English north Irish,Scottish or Welsh were not West Indian

We have been born and raised here they presume we can’t keep time because they don’t see us as the same as them English

I also think if you're an opponent of a particular viewpoint it's very easy to mistinterpret that viewpoint to make it look ridiculous and stupid, rather than giving it a fair hearing.

This is true but, as can be seen from numerous examples, it's the case that some proponents of CRT are arguing exactly as described.

I spent a very long time assuming things like TWAW was being misunderstood here in the same was. It took numerous examples and experiencing it personally before I realised that some people were not being metaphorical.

So obviously people like I am cannot abide people being late and vote with our feet or our money when people treat us like that. Others might think we were awful for not accepting a cultural norm,

Yes, this gets to the crux of it. The critical theory people would view the European norm of precise time keeping and the Jamaican norm of relaxed time keeping as equally valid. They would see the insistence by people in Western cultures that precise time keeping is the correct and superior way of doing things as a form of "white supremacy" that disadvantages people from cultures with relaxed time keeping norms.

And before anyone jumps down my throat again, I'm not saying I personally agree with this. I suspect in reality precise time-keeping is more a norm of fast-paced, industrialised socities (irrespective of race) than a norm specific to white Europeans.

This is a very interesting discussion - thank you to everyone on it. The example of being on time (and another recently in the press - that writing correct English or employers requiring it) could be racist. (I suppose if we were chatting in a group of men they might be saying women always being late getting ready to go out and doing their make up and changing their dress at the last minute was also a sexism issue too - not that I am like that, I am little miss punctual)

There are certainly cultural issues about being on time or not - our worst example was a lovely holiday in Jamaica and we got ourselves through breakfast at the hotel early and everyone including very tired teenagers was there at 9am bang on time for the arranged hire car. At 11am they indicated it might come soon as if that were okay. We obviously cancelled and had a dreadful start to our day and the car hire people seemed very rude to us that we would drag ourselves from bed so early bust a gut and were going to pay them and a 9am car hire could not arrive until 11am. I am sure that is not usual there but these were the words they used whilst smiling about the delay "Jamaica time". My pregnant child says she cannot believe at the NHS hospital she goes how late people are, 2 hours late even ( no one seems to be british born where she goes although that is just ancedote).

So obviously people like I am cannot abide people being late and vote with our feet or our money when people treat us like that. Others might think we were awful for not accepting a cultural norm,

However I accept the point above that it would be appalling when hiring a new member of staff to assume because they were a certain colour they might not be early for work every day! I don't thikn I would ever assume that despite our experience in Jamaica (never mind in Iran where I went to speak at conferences twice and a 2pm start of the afternoon lecture I was given would often be pushed to 3pm and the lunch break be much longer without any discussion - just delay delay delay - I went with the flow but I still ended bang on time at 5pm)

Mutual agreement and you would only think a black person is unable to get somewhere on time because you don’t see them as British not really

I haven't said that black people are unable to get somewhere on time. That's exactly what I said the argument wasn't about.

I'm not even particularly a fan of critical race theory and suspect that it's leading race relations in the wrong direction, but I also think if you're an opponent of a particular viewpoint it's very easy to mistinterpret that viewpoint to make it look ridiculous and stupid, rather than giving it a fair hearing.

The display posted earlier in the thread suggesting that things like time-keeping where part of "white" culture came from the National Museum of African American History Culture. So either the National Museum of African American History Culture is inexplicabe racist against black people or the point being made is different from how people have interpreted it.

And again it's not even a view I necessarily agree with, but what I do agree with is that all views should get a fair hearing and not be dismissed out of hand.

...meanwhile in the real world, the Yemenis of South Shields are among the oldest established of Britian's actual communities of colour.

The curious case of the 2016 film "Lady Macbeth," adapted from a Russian story and set in 1860s Northumbria, where for some reason all the servants are black. Presumably to denote their victim status whilst the family that own the estate are white and therefore oppressors.

Florence Pugh outstanding, but wtf all the same.

@Mango1982 My husband is black and he agrees with you. How offensive is it that people shouldn't expect him to be on time because he's black?

I was actually gobsmacked when I read that graphic you posted up thread when it was posted on Twitter a while ago. How can anyone read that and not see the racism? For anyone that didn't see it, have a look at www.the-sun.com/news/1149007/african-american-museum-whiteness-chart-protestant-values/

It’s the same type of lazy black thinking who will exuse bad behaviour by black and Asian people because the progressive Racist thinks it’s in “our culture”

They hold black and Asian people to a lower standard of behaviour and that makes the progressive racist just as it dose the neo nazi

NotDavidTennant

Mutual agreement and you would only think a black person is unable to get somewhere on time because you don’t see them as British not really

Because anyone under 30 has been raised here barr new comers their whole life I am well aware of what our shared culture is as a black person I am able to get my self places on time

For example “rounds”at the pub even Muslims who don’t drink will be able to articulate what a round is and what’s the expectation for gods sake

We all understand the culture in the U.K. around queuing and take it very very seriously

But only a special type of Rasict would look at me who is English born and raised here a think I couldn’t get to a meeting on time because of the colour of my skin or even worse expect me to be late 😳

Being late is rude their is not a person who was raised here who doesn't know that

As I believe in free speech I support this lady's right to be offensive - am an equal opportunities Je suis Charlie person. The university should just have told her off for being nasty (never mind telling her we Tories are kind and wonderful people and black, white and all sorts).... but not sacked her.

When the Greek economy collapsed and needed an EU bailout, a lot of Germans said the Greeks should be more German and get up at six in the morning, go to work for eight hours a day, five days a week, then come home and have their dinner at six in the evening.

A better suggestion would have been for the Greeks to keep Spanish hours, go home in the afternoons, then come back to work in the evening, and have dinner at knocking on midnight when it was finally cool enough to sit outside.

Yet people manage to go to all these places and adapt to the local customs.

Yes, but the point people are trying to make by highlighting this stuff is to question who gets to decide what the local customs are in the US. They're not saying "African-Americans are incapable of being on time" they're staying "Why should African-Americans have to follow the time-keeping norms of people of white European heritage and not the other way around?"

You now have progressives saying things like expecting people to be on time is radical white thinking 🤷‍♀️😳

I find it difficult to know how we got here.

I think it's understood by most people with a brain, at least after the first time they encounter the concept, that different cultures can have different views of what counts as "on time." If you ask people to a party at 7pm, what time you actually expect them to show up will be different in the UK, or Brazil, or Ghana. And this can also apply differently between social classes or sometimes other groupings.

Yet people manage to go to all these places and adapt to the local customs.

Just no words 😶

Tibtom I was watching Michael malice I think who is the author of the new right I think it was him who interviewed a some far right thinks and they were very much in agreement the felt it good people thinking about race in every interaction and that non blacks are not the same as whites in the way they behave

You now have progressives saying things like expecting people to be on time is radical white thinking 🤷‍♀️😳

Their are Rasicts i regularly suffer at the hand of progressives with racial slurs the types that have BLM banners in their Twitter bio and #be kind I regularly watch TV programs were progressives sit around saying how black people are unable to achieve on their own merit and need to be helped as were so week I regularly see progressives suggest that black people should not be treated the same in law,education and employment and have diffrent treatment the soft Rasict behaviour of the left is very real

I remember reading an article about how distructive this type of thinking was in schools in deprived black communities in America - written by someone who taught in many of these schools. The teenagers believed that as they were black there was no point trying as they would get nowhere in life, whilst simultaneously believing there was no point bothering because positive discrimination meant they were guaranteed places/jobs etc. It led to a malaise within the schools and a lack of engagement that was hard for even dedicated students to fight against.

’m just saying, given that this board is very rad fem, given everything I have read on here, it’s interesting that there is so much denial of racism and panicking about CRT when there seem to be clear parallels to me.
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Today 11:21 nauticant

it doesn’t seem so different to radical feminism

Here's one difference. In the US particularly, and also in the UK, institutions have invited CRT in and are configuring themselves to enable CRT to become widely embedded and to have considerable influence.

It's not the fact that people are free to choose to follow CRT, it's the manifestations of what this means. Say "I won't follow radical feminism" in your institution and see the people look on in bemusement. Then try saying "I won't follow CRT".
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Today 11:37 NotDavidTennant

given that this board is very rad fem

I'm not sure that this board is as rad fem is it once was though.

Increasingly I see people drawn here by the trans issue who are operting more from an "anti-woke" perspective and who see things like trans rights activism, critical race theory and perhaps even some aspects of radical feminism itself as part of a common front of "woke" activism that they oppose. These tend to be the people who dislike the concept of privelige, not the rad fems.
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Today 12:00 Blakes77

I think I agree with that DavidTennant. Seems to be a definite agenda, and not necessarily one that is about women’s rights in particular.
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Today 12:44 Tibtom

Blakes77
I think I agree with that DavidTennant. Seems to be a definite agenda, and not necessarily one that is about women’s rights in particular.
How much is that affected by the way these boards are managed and censored?
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Today 13:26 upthefrogs

This is such a fascinating discussion, it's helping me start to understand the debates so much. @Blakes77 CRT seems to have significant overlaps with rad fem to me too which is why I think I am aligned with many of its basic principles. But then there's something odd because commentators I understand as being aligned with CRT do not seem to be aligned with the principles of rad fem and are for example very happy to say TWAW. Which I not so comfortable with. So how is it that they can 'see' structural disadvantage in one place but not in another. The trouble with all of this for me is that it's like trying to hold jelly tight in your hand without any escaping. Impossible. And similarly it feels as though making CRT something I either agree with or don't is impossible. I think it was @nauticant up threat who said take bits and reject others, including specific interpretations. That seems like the only approach as I read more.
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Today 13:56 LobsterNapkin

Females are disadvantaged because they are women, because of childbirth and other biological facts

Right here you have a clear and deeply significant difference with race. And for that matter, with class in the Marxist sense.

Suggesting that recognizing the difference is about some other agenda is bs. Any radical feminist worth their salt understand this. Others who don't have essentially embraced the feminist version of CRT which isn't a good thing. And yes, there are rad fems who fall into that error, whatever they call themselves. If you don't start with material reality you aren't using a marxist class analysis, you are doing something else.
who is denying Raceism this thread is literally about a Asian women who called a mixed raced man a Racist terms point me to we’re anyone has said their are 0 racists in the When I have herd is people like me say not eveyone is Rasict not every white person is racist and to make all white people pay because some white people are Rasict is Rasict in it’s self also not everyone is convinced that a white paraplegic has more privilege than stormzy the millionaire

Their are Rasicts i regularly suffer at the hand of progressives with racial slurs the types that have BLM banners in their Twitter bio and #be kind I regularly watch TV programs were progressives sit around saying how black people are unable to achieve on their own merit and need to be helped as were so week I regularly see progressives suggest that black people should not be treated the same in law,education and employment and have diffrent treatment the soft Rasict behaviour of the left is very real