Page 3 | Misogyny and the influence of the ‘Karen’ meme.

AgnesRose · 2021-08-15T11:53:43+00:00

Lots of discussion of extreme misogyny and Incel culture after the horrific shootings in Plymouth. I can’t help but think that the casual misogyny of the ‘Karen’ meme really contributes and feeds the problem of entrenched misogyny in society. Women are depicted as ‘entitled’ ‘scolds’ and ‘nags’. No male equivalent has gained the same notoriety, of course. Thoroughly demoralising how so-called progressives on both sides of the Atlantic use it with glee too - young women as well. In the U.K. Karen is the name of older women and are more likely to be working class.

TabbyStar · 15/08/2021 16:55

To say that the Karen meme is misogyny is literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public. So, no do not agree.

So choose another word that doesn't impact on individuals called Karen. I don't think it's even right in this context. Why make an individual feel bad about her name when she's done nothing wrong? And there are quite a few black Karens.

But in reality, this isn't how it's used now, in the UK. It's used against any middle aged woman who's standing up for herself or others. There's no male equivalent. And it's middle aged women who are challenging male entitlement and upholding safeguarding. It's pretty dangerous to silence us, even if younger people at this point don't think so.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 16:40

Im not convinced “Karen” is misogyny as it is by definition applied to certain white women acting all entitled and racist towards nonwhites.

www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/
“WHAT DOES KAREN MEAN?

Karen is a pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman who uses her privilege to get her way or police other people's behaviors.

As featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being an anti-vaxx , Generation X soccer mom.

In 2020, Karen spread as a label used to call out white women who were captured in viral videos engaging in what are widely seen as racist acts.”

To say that the Karen meme is misogyny is literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public. So, no do not agree.

BrandineDelRoy · 15/08/2021 16:35

@Gab2

Young women are only too happy to call the middle aged women Karen. However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect. Older women are very fast to shame a younger woman and let the man off the hook etc. Its not so simple as older women are wiser etc because they are just as receptive to internal misogyny as young women are. Misogynistic men exploit this situation with great ease. It's sad but I really can't blame younger women for seeing older women as the baddies.

I'm curious what you mean about middle aged women destroying the lives of young women for men?

Original poster

AgnesRose · 15/08/2021 16:19

‘However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect.’

Can’t say that I have any experience of this or really know what you are taking about. Sorry. Most middle aged women I know are trying to deal with the demands of balancing working with childcare and maybe having to care or support elderly parents. Not to mention debilitating peri menopause and menopause symptoms.

OP posts:

FrankButchersDickieBow · 15/08/2021 15:56

However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman

Huh???

TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate · 15/08/2021 15:32

However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman.

I really don’t know what you mean, perhaps you are referring to a specific incident but I would certainly doubt that this is the norm.

Gab2 · 15/08/2021 15:15

Young women are only too happy to call the middle aged women Karen. However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect. Older women are very fast to shame a younger woman and let the man off the hook etc. Its not so simple as older women are wiser etc because they are just as receptive to internal misogyny as young women are. Misogynistic men exploit this situation with great ease. It's sad but I really can't blame younger women for seeing older women as the baddies.

NinaGonk · 15/08/2021 14:52

Totally agree OP.

I saw the comedian Sarah Silverman take calls on various issues. One was a woman saying how the term Karen was misogynistic. Sarah basically told her that she was an entitled white woman who should suck it up. Gobsmacked.

Original poster

AgnesRose · 15/08/2021 14:46

The people who use it most often and enthusiastically in my experience are white -have mainly seen it used recently to do with disagreements about mask wearing.
Also, find it odd that it is ok in English speaking countries to use a Danish name as an insult. Karen is also the name of an ethnic group in Myanmar. Nothing about this is progressive. Quite the opposite.

OP posts:

SusannaM · 15/08/2021 14:23

It's my name and I hate it. But these discussions always end in black women saying white women are policing their language and it makes the whole thing even more entrenched.

Original poster

AgnesRose · 15/08/2021 14:11

I have seen the generator on another thread. The use of any given name as an insult is bullying and thoroughly unpleasant. Even if it isn’t personal to someone named ‘Karen’ the idea that it wouldn’t have an impact on someone with that name seeing that everywhere is ludicrous and disingenuous.

OP posts:

katemuff · 15/08/2021 14:00

I also suggest that instead of 'Karen' they use my name- a similar Middle Aged name.
And send them this karenismyname.org/renamer

katemuff · 15/08/2021 13:59

Karen and Terf are both misogyny and I point this out repeatedly with long winded explanations every time I hear it. It's boring but necessary. Anyone not taking what I say on board is a called bigoted versions of what they are for the rest of our time together. Eg Old codger, silly old man, snowflake, road man, trendy right on teenager, trendy vegan, silly little girl/boy. Etc. I am so careful and respectful usually that it works a treat.

Kittii · 15/08/2021 13:49

I agree, it is misogyny.

Original poster

AgnesRose · 15/08/2021 13:47

I have seen ‘Karen’ described and defended as a ‘term’ and not a name as though this isn’t a gendered name in English speaking countries. The level of denial is staggering and frustrating.

OP posts:

rumred · 15/08/2021 13:22

Casual misogyny is everywhere. 'grow a pair', 'man up', 'ballache' etc etc. The Karen thing is just the latest in a line of hardcore woman hate as normal narrative

Deliriumoftheendless · 15/08/2021 13:19

And they don’t realise it will all apply to them in a few years.

IvyTwines2 · 15/08/2021 13:03

'Karen' and 'T*rf', both fashionable terms of abuse used to dismiss women who assert their normal civil rights and defend their boundaries and safe spaces. There's a particular emphasis on making it cool and trendy amongst the young to dismiss and silence the voices of middle-aged and older women, women who have many decades of lived experience and wisdom as adult human females. Who benefits from that loss of the voices of female lived experience? Not young women, but they're the ones being encouraged by social media to attack and dismiss. Funny that.