Why do some men hate women?

Male manual labour is undervalued? Hardly. Bin men, train drivers, road maintenance etc — all much more highly paid than the female stereotypical jobs like carers, hospitality etc.

Quick Googling shows that bin workers get up to £30k with experience. Pretty sure minimum wage carers will never get that much.

I think all men have an underlying unspoken notion that women are a secondary class to men. Even small things like asking women to take notes in meetings or having the expectation that housework and childcare is something they 'help' with but it's actually a woman's job. The good ones recognise and challenge that thinking but many don't and when it comes to women actively bucking their sense of place then it causes the men stress, they feel out of control when they are so used to being in control and some turn to this incel rubbish.

Here's an old documentary featuring love shy and incels. It's depressing to watch. The love shy guy with glasses doesn't seem too bad but the incels are awful.
The guy with the long hair is clearly on the autism spectrum. Quite a few of these “incels” are. They blame their looks and think they’re ugly, but often they’re fairly normal looking and are being rejected due to behavioural issues.

If we're talking about incels, I think it's based in self loathing, tbh. But that's a hard thing to deal with, so it's easier to direct outwards , towards women and more socially successful men.
I suspect most of these men were the kids who couldn't make friends, were crap at football weren't particularly clever, just didn't fit in, were belittled/bullied by the other kids. As they leave school they find out life as an adult is just as boring and lonely, perhaps even more so. They're still bottom of the (male) pecking order, and know they always will be. I also suspect a lot of these men are autistic which accounts for the rigid thinking. Some of them do manage to find a niche, eg, a hobby, but increasing online life seems to be replacing that kind of thing.

In my experience, men deal with rejection really badly

So much comes down to the primary school years and emotional literacy.

Girls are bombarded with messages to be emotional literate, but also self blame.

Boys are told to be brave and strong.

Some research has linked this to offending rates later on, and also rates of offending against women:

Part 1 of two

icelolly12: no doubt their version of a "wholesome" woman will be something like a gilead wife or taliban preference

Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.
Cheris Kramarae

I say that as a teacher with a 20 yr career working in sen but mainly mainly boys who have a lot of social emotional needs, trauma etc.

The difference all the teachers make, no matter their sex, are be huge, life changing, but they see very few men.

It ultimately comes down to the skill of the teacher, but they need to see more men with those skills in my honest opinion.

Unfortunately one aspect I think adds to the issue is that there are so few men in early years and primary school.

And many scoot up the ladder ASAP.

Here's an old documentary featuring love shy and incels. It's depressing to watch. The love shy guy with glasses doesn't seem too bad but the incels are awful.

@ItsLateHumpty I am, thank you, life is better than I could have imagined now.

In my experience, men deal with rejection really badly - it really upsets them and it can lead to some really odd behaviour. If this happens, there's no chance of recovering a situation, the dynamic changes forever. The male ego is a very fragile thing.

I think that many men think that their mothers did not give them enough love and attention and this just continues to their feelings towards women in their lives later on.

I am confused about men and sex - on MN posters say he can give himself a handjob if the partner is not in the mood for sex, someone pestering for sex is an absolute no. But all these men can give themselves a hand job but obviously it isn't doing the trick. What is it about sex that men feel such a need for it, or that they feel they deserve regular sex with women.
Is it that men's sex drive is much stronger?

Fucking hell vampirethriller and thanks for sharing your experience. I hope you are in a much better place now.

Why do women always pay the penalty for men’s obsessions.

There is a movement called "femcels", i.e. women incels. They have at least one (closed) sub-reddit and probably a FB group too (I'm not on FB). From what I have read about them their resentment and rage is almost invariably turned inward: they hate their own bodies, not the men who don't desire them, even the boyfriends who let these women know they are just waiting until something better comes along. One of these femcels has yet to stock up on ammo and take out a half-a-dozen random passers-by.

Upstream swimmer 'The truth is that overall the balance of power is fairly equally divided among the sexes, and healthy individuals understand and acknowledge this.'

Yet even in the West women earn less than men, are under-represented at the higher levels in politics, law, and every profession from architecture to zoology & over-represented at the lower levels, do more housework and childcare (as the pandemic has confirmed), and continue to be far more afraid of men than men are of women. In other countries, it's far, far worse, as in Afghanistan now: the girls and women have already been told not to attend school or university any more; the first thing the Taliban does is start to control women again.

I don't think this is really anything new, it's just more obvious because it's all done online where everyone can see it.

Back in the 70s and 80s the vitriol and hatred towards lesbians was appalling and justified by men despising women who were independent of men, who weren't going to pander to men's needs.

This hatred has expanded as more heterosexual women have become independent of men. No longer does a woman have to accept a man in her life. Now a woman can be financially and emotionally independent, even have a child on her own. And as this independence has built up so has the resentment of it.

Men complain that some women hate all men. Probably some do, but they react by staying away from men, by building lives among groups of women.

Men who hate women don't stay away from them. They pursue them, abuse them, and sadly, sometimes kill them.

Without commenting on any specific incel or incel forum, I think in general anger builds up against those who have, or are perceived to have, power over us.

When you always need to go through someone else in order to get what you want, that is a fertile ground for anger and resentment against that person. It is the reason some men harbour anger against women, because women hold the balance of power when it comes to sex. It is the reason employees often hate their bosses, despite not being mistreated, merely told what to do. It is the reason some women hate men, because they perceive society as being patriarchal with men holding the power.

The truth is that overall the balance of power is fairly equally divided among the sexes, and healthy individuals understand and acknowledge this. But when people only see the power others have over them, that's when resentment builds.

They hate women who aren’t giving them the attention they want. They’re jealous of men who are getting the attention they wish they had. In most cases they blame their looks or height or genetics, when in fact the problem is often mostly personality related.

Not at all, jobs such as road sweeper, bin person, pest control, builder whether done by a man or women "are largely underpaid with a low social status" and I believe this is true, but unfair.

-They HATE the fact that the typical work men do is undervalued in society - e.g. manual labour is overwhelmingly done by men and these jobs are largely underpaid with a low social status.

TBF this one is true.

I know someone who although a kind and decent person desperate to have a girlfriend and a normal life, just hasn’t managed to find a girlfriend . He feels women prefer men who treat them badly and feels bitter about that. It leads to all kinds of angry and bitter feelings and many men don’t know how to deal with those feelings. They don’t know what their role is supposed to be or how they are meant to act. They are often online a lot, on forums or possibly watching porn. It skews their judgement and some become unhinged as a result. If a man has never had a girlfriend and all he knows is women objectified in the media and in programmes like Love Island, it doesn’t lead to a healthy attitude to women.

They watch the porn and think this is what all women are like, that women are sex obsessed and this is what women are doing with Chads, but they never get to experience it. They apparently want a nice wholesome woman, but all women have been tainted and ruined by multiple sex sessions with Chads...