Why do some men hate women?

I think often it's still that thing that women are steered more towards roles with children. And they tend to pay less. I also wonder if primary teaching is seen as a woman's job. You def get more men in secondary, but then, mainly in certain subjects.

Surely women could also get better pay elsewhere too?

greatauntemily I think tradionally, it's cos they can get better pay elsewhere.

Yes, this is probably why but nowadays the younger generation (in my limited experience) seem to not rate high pay and long hours as highly as they were and have more interest in a good quality of life - especially as it is the norm for both partners to work.

greatauntemily I think tradionally, it's cos they can get better pay elsewhere. Those who do go into it, tend to head to management or out of teaching all together, then write books telling the rest of us how to do it.

Annoyingly, my own kids have always rated their male teachers more highly than their female teachers.

Why are there so few male primary teachers - do you get more in other countries? Perhaps this is something the Gov could do some promotion on.

Dr Jane Clare Jones is one of the best resources for this topic

Twitter for easy to understand summaries and glorious swearing
twitter.com/janeclarejones

Website for in-depth PHD University Professor level expert theory
janeclarejones.com/

And spats with misogynist men on the left
Like Owen Jones
twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1427377939948183553

I posted way above about the medias perpetual way of showing women.
I think, now, the media needs to portray men in an honest way.
If men are only shown that men are strong but sensitive, perfect figures...
Its still no excuse for the violent actions of some men.
I think the primary school link with male teachers is really interesting.
Boys at an early age seeing men in a caring roll must be an influence.

For some men , yes. Not all. Some men have very little confidence and are well aware of their own shortcomings.

It’s their sense of male entitlement and inability to recognise their own shortcomings.

There's a tendency in films and TV series for the wife/girlfriend/love-interest of the leading male character to be "hotter" than he is. DH and I have found this is practically a law, and have wondered what it means. Maybe the men watching think of themselves as deserving in that way, while the women just accept it as a male fantasy?

I wonder too if some men—not just incels, but ordinary blokes too, of the sort ginandbearit knows—have too high expectations, in physical terms, so they reject women who don't meet their unrealistically high standards, but don't even try with women they know will reject them.

Lots ....I've met many men who think women have it easy , are coasting in the marriage especially if the children are young and in day care so the wife can go to her pilates class and set up a micro networking coaching business whch never makes money while the husband is driving a van or flogging himself half to death in a business he hates. I've listened to these men ...not one of them would actually manage well if they had to do the real wife work .

I wonder how many men, currently spouting about Afghanistan and women's right, would actually quietly say nothing, if women lost their rights in this country. How many men secretly just want women to stfu?

Yes it was really difficult at times ..and as a Psychiatric Nurse I met men who REALLY hated women so knew the difference ...I managed to get a couple of the guys to local folk clubs and walking groups where they at least had the opportunity to meet other people in a unthreatening atmosphere..cos if you try and talk to a woman in a pub ..well..
Cant claim any marriages from my attempts but at least they got talking to women and could form a friendship first ..some of the guys hadnt spoken to a woman socially in years .

@ginandbearit I’m a man, and have friends that resonate with your description. Did you not think to take any of them under your wing a bit, and bolster their confidence?

I’ve done it a few times, and whilst it’s not necessarily easy, you can make all difference. One guy I helper is married now and well liked/respected.

I often think we men need to be a little better at stepping up for one another (and ofc women and children). A little emotional support can make a huge difference.

It's not just the need for sex though ..the other needs of nurturing , comfort and validation are also desired , and when young men try to gain that from other women ( other than their mothers) and are rejected then resentment can grow .
I'm a man and when in my forties and single, I had a bunch of male friends I called The Unshaggable Men because ..well ..they were .They were good guys but clumsy , nerdy , not good looking frankly , never the first pick for teams at school, a bit obsessive on hobbies and rock bands . Anyone of them would have made a good partner and dad given the right circumstances and opportunity, but early rejection and then self protection made them withdraw from trying to get female attention . None of them ever expressed hatred or resentment of women , more a sadness and resignation that they wouldnt find a partner ...so unlike the incels we're discussing, no animosity from them , maybe because they were older, and younger men have been fed a diet of not just porn but entitlement too .

Agreed, being able to take a rejection with good grace should be a priority for each and every man. I mean obviously we are never going to like rejection, but it’s beyond ridiculous how men react to it sometimes.

Oh my goodness @Shodan, what a horrific thing for your brother to say to you. It's so sickening when someone like that reveals themselves after carefully hiding away their actual feelings for many years.

Because some men seem to think that sex is the most important thing in the world, and that their desire for it is actually a right and a literal need. They see women as nothing but a source of sexual gratification, and it infuriates them that we would dare refuse them. Inadequate creeps.

Even in middle age I am still surprised by men I know who don't like women speaking their own mind!

I had this recently- made even worse by the fact that he was my own brother, who considers (and proclaims) himself to be liberal, deep thinking etc.

He was so irate that I was disagreeing with him (about a feminist issue, no less) that when insults such as 'cretinous' and jeers like "I've spoken to post-grads about this (clear implication that I'm thick because I don't even hold a degree) failed to deter me, he then said he could understand what my sexual abuser thought of me. The sexual abuser was another brother, and he abused me when I was 10.

Obviously I knew what a mysoginist the abusing brother was- but to find out that another felt the same way, and had managed to keep it so well hidden for so long, was very unsettling.

It perhaps does explain why he's been single for so long though. If you view your own sister as 'less than', it surely translates into other areas.

If that's your experience of some women (mother/sister/whoever), or if you feel that about yourself somewhat (don't we all feel somewhat worthless sometimes?) and you're more sensitive and susceptible to such comments and a woman scornfully confirms it?

There's your (partial) answer....

Manual labour on building sites is paid extremely well, as are plumbers, electricians etc. all typically males roles.

Men complain that some women hate all men. Probably some do, but they react by staying away from men, by building lives among groups of women.
Men who hate women don't stay away from them. They pursue them, abuse them, and sadly, sometimes kill them.

This is so true. It's like they can't cope with not being noticed by women and demand attention, like a toddler - even if it's bad attention. There are plenty of women who get overlooked by men all the time. They may feel resentful and bitch to their friends, but they don't lash out and shoot people, or demand that men be made their sex slaves.

I think it comes down to women are taught not to take up too much space in the world, don't be too loud, too confident, you might make others feel bad. Men are taught to be loud and brash and demand attention. And when they don't get it, they get angry.

What's more annoying about this is, these are a smaller group of men who take it to the extreme. But there are so many men out there who sympathise with them, and would never stand up to them and challenge it, mostly because it doesn't really affect them. They're not the target of this anger and rage, so they don't have to care. So many seemingly nice men, who see this as not a big problem and we're overreacting.

I was also struck by hearing de-transitioners stories, young women who had taken testosterone. They talked about feeling so confident, invincible, and powerful as an affect of the testosterone.
So perhaps there is a biological component to it.