Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Incels as terrorists

34 replies

AssassinatedBeauty · 13/08/2021 11:04

The shootings yesterday were apparently carried out by a man who posted youtube videos about his affinity with incel ideology, as well as rants about women. Yet all the reporting about this is quite clear to state that the shootings aren't "terror related". Are women and girls as a specific target group not subject to the same considerations as everyone else?? If this man was part of an ideological group that professed hate for non-white people, or people of a certain religion then these crimes would be considered as terrorism.

OP posts:
catzwhiskas · 13/08/2021 18:48

Being discussed on the TV news. Incels, misogyny etc. I think MN has been consulted. About time

Tomatobear · 13/08/2021 14:24

I agree that if it had been any other group the media would be shouting about the injustice from the hill tops. It's really sad.

1Endeavour2 · 13/08/2021 13:18

Clearly not.
There are many men who would empathize with the Taliban men in Afghanistan. God help their women and girls.

Original poster
AssassinatedBeauty · 13/08/2021 12:49

The UK Terrorism Act from 2000 defines terrorism as the use or threat made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause (with "racial" having been added in 2009). The incel movement is an ideological cause. It hasn't been just about politics for the last 20 odd years or so.

I agree that the US (and others) has a motive for wanting to rename its enemies as terrorists to avoid having to treat them as prisoners of war, and to enable practices like extraordinary rendition. But that is nothing to do with this.

OP posts:
SmokedDuck · 13/08/2021 12:42

I said this on the other thread. It's only terrorism if the aim is political.

A lot of what is called terrorism in the media is really more like guerrilla warfare, or insurgency, or criminal acts, even an act of war, and a lot of "terrorists" are really insurgents or revolutionaries or plain old criminals.

Terrorism has a specific meaning, different from these things, within international conventions and within the laws of war. This meaning has been purposefully undermined, and part of that is spreading this idea that terrorism is somehow the worst possible kind of thing.

But it's actually a very targeted attempt to change language, because for nations, there are a lot of rules about how you have to treat enemy combatants and soldiers. Most of these don't apply to terrorists. So you are free to keep them in detention without charge, torture them, etc. (Though less so if they are citizens born in the country they are operating in which case they have to be treated as citizens.)

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/08/2021 12:28

@AssassinatedBeauty

The shootings yesterday were apparently carried out by a man who posted youtube videos about his affinity with incel ideology, as well as rants about women. Yet all the reporting about this is quite clear to state that the shootings aren't "terror related". Are women and girls as a specific target group not subject to the same considerations as everyone else?? If this man was part of an ideological group that professed hate for non-white people, or people of a certain religion then these crimes would be considered as terrorism.
Thread with some discussion about this: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4321835-Its-not-terrorism-Plymouth-title-edited-by-MNHQ-at-OPs-request
NonnyMouse1337 · 13/08/2021 12:24

When Engender held an online event about the Hate Crime Bill in Scotland, I raised this point at the time - that by not including sex in the list of characteristics, we won't be able to rightfully frame crimes against women like incel attacks as hate crimes. They had no response to that and kept insisting it wasn't a good idea to include sex in the HCB because blah blah something something in USA study means this is a bad idea. Better to be a standalone offence. 🙄
They were unable to explain why it was a good thing for other characteristics to be on the HCB but somehow it didn't work for sex.

Flaxmeadow · 13/08/2021 11:54

I managed to see some of his twisted self obsessed "me me me, poor me" ramblings on his YouTube before it was taken down about an hour ago.

You're right OP. I whole heartedly agree with you

334bu · 13/08/2021 11:08

Not sure about England but hatred of woman is not covered by the Hate Crime Bill in Scotland.

Swipe left for the next trending thread