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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Children as young as 4 allowed to choose gender identity

158 replies

Plastic01 · 13/08/2021 07:57

Surprise surprise, Scotland again.

mol.im/a/9888899

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trumpisagit · 13/08/2021 10:13

Gender neutral uniform is a good idea. It allows girls to wear clothes most appropriate for their activities.
It also might mean that small children don't get labelled as trans because they want to wear trousers or a skirt.

littlbrowndog · 13/08/2021 10:11

Yes scully that as well

Children keeping secrets

That always ends well

littlbrowndog · 13/08/2021 10:08

Oh someone on Twitter thinking same thing

Children as young as 4 allowed to choose gender identity
Plastic01 · 13/08/2021 10:07

I completely agree that gender neutral uniform for young kids is comfortable and practical but if an older girl wants to wear skirts surely she should be allowed to do so?

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Whatwouldscullydo · 13/08/2021 10:06

Why are some children more important than others

Treated as nore important in one sense, but seemingly not entitled entitled the same level of safeguarding on the other.

It should not be acceptable to place these trans children at such great risk. They should have the same level.of safguarding applied to them

eddiemairswife · 13/08/2021 10:06

I knew a boy who wanted to be a tram. He was 10. He became a C of E priest.

WeeTorag · 13/08/2021 10:05

@Plastic01

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.
I agree. Plenty of girls still want to be "girls" and wearing skirts to school is ok. If they lose the option to, that's not fair either.
Tibtom · 13/08/2021 10:05

Gender neutral shouldn't mean boys things or primary colours. It should mean recognising colours are just colours. Pink is fine for boys. Blue is fine for girls as well as pink if they want it. Boys can play dressup with the fairy costume or the iron man outfit.

SingingToMySeeds · 13/08/2021 10:04

My daughter at that age spent months insisting she would be a bird when she grew up.

My son spent a year at a similar age with pink as his favourite colour and absolutely adoring all things My Little Pony. He even said once, 'I wish I was a girl'. I just gently asked him why and he said because girls like pink and My Little Pony. I told him that boys can like it too and colours are for everyone - he was happy with that and never mentioned it again! I dread to think how a school would've responded.

Branks · 13/08/2021 10:03

So a child can use any toilet? It doesn’t need to correspond to the ‘gender assigned at birth’? No one assigns a gender at birth - nor does anyone assign a sex at birth. Sex is observed. In some cases a baby might have ambiguous genitalia and have a DSD - hopefully these days these children are treated with respect and sensitivity and aren’t ‘assigned’ a sex until further down the line when they can understand their bodies and their particular situation.

It is so bloody dangerous to keep conflating sex and gender. I think it’s deliberately done to make everyone just get so exasperated they ignore it all. And that’s why guidance like this slips through.

I hate all the ‘oh I identified as an attack helicopter’ though because it minimises the pain that some of these children are going through. Gender dysphoria is distressing. But that doesn’t mean we wholesale dump the notion that there are two sexes and that we don’t explore and support children who may be going through all sorts of shit by immediately affirming their ‘identities’. I will never ‘ celebrate’ a young woman having top surgery. I feel sad at all the TikToks where young women are telling each other how to ‘pass’ as a man by manspreading and frowning and taking up more space. Take up more space as a woman FGS - don’t go running for the perceived ‘shelter’ of being a transman when all you might need is a bit of time to work your way through your teens and early 20s (which can be a bloody bumpy ride but that’s life)

Gender is a crock of shit that seeks to constrict, and restrict human beings. How we are here, I don’t know. And gender neutral uniforms do not strip women of their femininity. It’s just bloody clothes.

I am embarrassed to be living in Scotland. But more than that I am actually genuinely fearful of where this is leading some of our ‘most vulnerable’ (to coin a phrase) young people.

littlbrowndog · 13/08/2021 10:02

This guidance document of 70 pages focusing on transgender children in schools

Where is the 70 page guidance document on children mostly girls in Scottish schools being sexually assaulted , sent dick pics groped harassed

Did Shirley Anne Somerville forget “everyone’s invited “

Why are some children more important than others.

Why is sexual abuse in schools not being tackled and guidance sent to schools

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-schools-sexual-abuse-allegations-24405880

Tibtom · 13/08/2021 10:01

When my daughter was little she had a bit of a tummy and trousers and trackies didn't fit her well: she felt most comfortable in dresses and tunics which didn't sit round her middle. She also liked dresses. (now she doesn't have a single one).

WeeTorag · 13/08/2021 10:01

I just think it's frightening that a TRA is in charge of education in Scotland. Totally captured. I hope Scottish parents rise up the way American parents have been in the USA. Not that it made any difference in Loudon County. Despite hundreds of parents objecting to the trans policies, the spiteful board still voted to enforce them. 😡 I dread to think how much further Scotland will fall if they get independence. ☹️

MaryGubbins · 13/08/2021 09:54

Well yes, I guess gender neutral uniform could include skirts and skirts. I personally think school uniform should be cheap, practical and simple so if I was designing something for 4-7 year olds I’d choose one simple outfit like a polo and trackies.

thirdfiddle · 13/08/2021 09:50

Gender neutral uniform rules, gender neutral toy rules, all good. There's no sex based reason for different clothes or toys.

Seems like for some actual institutions have just switched from "you're a boy, you're not allowed to like pink" straight into "you like pink so you're a girl". One typical 4 yr old misconception to the other. What hope for the actual 4 yr olds?

Tibtom · 13/08/2021 09:43

@MaryGubbins

I’m fine with gender neutral uniform. All small primary kids should be wear a polo shirt and track suit trousers to school in my opinion. The idea children of different sexes must adopt different clothes and life styles and rigid gender norms is one of the things I rail against.
Why shouldn't girls wear a skirt, skort or dress?
Whatwouldscullydo · 13/08/2021 09:43

Gender neutral though is usually default male. So girls will lose the option of being able to wear skirts which sone may well prefer. Because the idea never seems to he to let the boys wear the skirts. Always to try and squeeze girls at various stages of puberty into clothes that simply aren't designed to accommodate changing bodies.

Children as young as 4 being taught there's no need for sex segregation at times when they are vulnerable/in stages of undress. What could possibly go wrong..🤔

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/08/2021 09:38

@Plastic01

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.
Female identity is about your body, not what clothes that body wears...
Whatwouldscullydo · 13/08/2021 09:30

Oh yes let's pathologise perfectly normal healthy chikd behaviour. Kids don't need labels they need to be left alone. They need to be able to play with and wear what they like without parents panicking their penos may fall of because their son picked up a barbie

Why are adults doing this to children. Why so obsessed with the sexuality and identities of children. Labelling them at 4 will merely cement their thoughts and behaviours. It immediately traps them into the decision. They just need leaving alone

sharksarecool · 13/08/2021 09:29

@Plastic01

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.
I don't see how the uniform change is a problem. Why should their female identity be linked in any way to what they wear?

However, letting 4 year olds choose their gender, and actively concealing those choices from parents, is bloody awful

MaryGubbins · 13/08/2021 09:26

I’m fine with gender neutral uniform. All small primary kids should be wear a polo shirt and track suit trousers to school in my opinion. The idea children of different sexes must adopt different clothes and life styles and rigid gender norms is one of the things I rail against.

DeclineandFall · 13/08/2021 09:25

The Greens are going to love this. Which is probably more than half the point.

MyFloorIsLava · 13/08/2021 09:22

@Plastic01

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.
Eh?
Plastic01 · 13/08/2021 09:20

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.

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LaChatte · 13/08/2021 09:19

My DS wanted to be a potato when he was 4 (he actually asked us to call him Spud for over a year).

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