Children as young as 4 allowed to choose gender identity

If boys want to wear skirts and girls trousers, that's fine by me.

But they should still have the option to wear them if that's what they prefer. Teenagers like to express themselves through clothes, hair and makeup and while these things don't make you a girl, they do contribute towards identity. Having all traditionally female garments taken away to placate certain groups is just wrong.

Which groups do you placate by getting rid of school uniform skirts? Teachers probably - one of the reasons skirts are such a pain is that lots of girls roll them up or wear them ridiculously short.

As for teenagers wanting to express themselves,surely that's an argument for ditching school uniform altogether, rather than having something as dull and 'uniform' as the standard grey skirts and grey trousers?

This is very, very, very stupid.

Every child needs a legal guardian. Unless there is a reason to transfer care to somebody else that is their parent.

If a non specific adult with no formal legal duty towards the child beyond that of a teacher keeps secrets from parents, the child is obviously left in a very vulnerable position.

I don’t have strong feelings about Scottish Independence, but I really worry about a Scotland led by this government.

But again let’s not get our gender neutral undergarments in a twist about uniform snd derail from the meat of the policy!

We talking about Scotland - put them all in kilts!

The above was to leonpride.

I’m not campaigning for anything. I just said I’ve no problem with gender neutral uniform. I also (perhaps inarticulately) tried to make the point that strict gender expectations are generally regarded to be a bad thing. I wasn’t referring specifically to clothes but also “life styles and gender norms.” Plenty to rail against there I think.

I take your point that if gender neutral means a default to the male version it’s not great. I do feel that for small children engaged in a play based curriculum with sport/daily mile etc joggers are a better choice and offer more independent dressing than skirts and tights (I can barely put tights on myself). But I’m not campaigning or arguing skirts should be banned and obviously would remain an option to all in a gender neutral policy.

To your point that no one has said that girls must wear a skirt. It’s not really what I was talking about but unfortunately there are still schools in the uk where skirts are the only uniform - check out let clothes be clothes on Facebook who have campaigned over this.

And how do teachers tell if the kids are "genuine" or just play acting for attention?

We live in a society in this country that just does not value parenthood. Being a stay at home mum/ dad is something to sanction the recipiants of UC for , something used to shame people with. Instead of recognising the value of what being a parent is and the contribution to society that its making.

Of course when kids don't see much of their parents due to them.having to work, when kids are shuffled around between separated parents and grandparents parents etc just so everyone can be where they need to be and keep a roof over their heads , of course suddenly being being centre of attention, having people adapt to accommodate you as opposed to you having to go along with whatever they need from you, would appeal to many of the children. It's like every normal reaction or stage of development is forgotten about when it comes to this stuff.

Don't teachers have enough to do without having to be the gender stereotype police as well? There will be so many kids claiming to be "special" that it will be hard to keep up. And how do teachers tell if the kids are "genuine" or just play acting for attention? I already wonder what sort of biology teachers are allowed to teach without being called out as transphobic...

The whole 'gender neutral uniform' is disturbing as well and will result in girls losing even more of their female identity.

Skirts aren't what make you a girl. And I doubt many girls would like their identity to be represented by a boring school uniform skirt. Trousers are practical - that's partly why women spent so long wanting to be allowed to wear them. No, they're sometimes not particularly flattering on some people, but school uniform isn't flattering on many people, including some boys. Perhaps a wider variety of styles of trousers would be a better option.

Oh they need to just piss off on the this

You mentioned girls and boys "must" have different clothes

Nobody said must. In schools, it's not by force to wear a skirt.

If your campaigning for 'gender neutrality' (ie everyone wears trousers, a traditionally male garment) that is not choice

As long as wearing a skirt is a choice there's nothing to tail against. Not everything needs to be 'neutral'

leonpride

*MaryGubbins
I’m fine with gender neutral uniform. All small primary kids should be wear a polo shirt and track suit trousers to school in my opinion. The idea children of different sexes must adopt different clothes and life styles and rigid gender norms is one of the things I rail against.

God, I find this position tiresome as well. Nobody rails against boys wearing trousers but girls wearing skirts and presenting in a feminine way must be some oppressive regime*

when did I say I was against girls wearing skirts?

In all this gender mess that would at least be a novel position I suppose,

Anyway derailment re gender neutral uniform over. This new guidance is clearly nuts. I’m interested in ways we can stand against it. I may write to my msp.

Women and girls Scotland are onto it

God, I find this position tiresome as well. Nobody rails against boys wearing trousers but girls wearing skirts and presenting in a feminine way must be some oppressive regime

And this is what Shirley Anne Somerville was busy with

More from mail

This stuff is presented as progressive and gender non-conforming. It's nothing of the sort. It's gender stereotypes on steroids

Also tramples all over most other protected characteristics.

Disabled children may have to share their only accessible toilet with children with.identity issues.

They may lose the right to care being provided by someone of the same sex.

Those who observe religious practices may lose their single sex prayer spaces

The gaslighting will be distressing for all children however those with LDs may well be extra distressed. Wheres their right to "inclusive education" ?

It doesn't even benefit the children. Think a female child will be safe changing In front of all the boys? And of course boys should have their privacy too .

Parents should ask fir the impact assessment I can place money on their not being one. There never is

My DS at four was a big fan of anything pink and sparkly. He wanted all his clothes to be pink and that was fine by me.
I also remember him asking me when he was going to grow boobs, aged around three.
Now, that'd be taken as evidence that he knew he was going to grow into a woman and he'd be on puberty blockers now, stunting his growth and doing god-knows-what to his bones and brain, and all to prepare him for surgery and to become a life long medical patient.
And for what? Because as a young child, he liked sparkly things and was still learning about how bodies worked?
This stuff is presented as progressive and gender non-conforming. It's nothing of the sort. It's gender stereotypes on steroids.

Baby Alistair is now a cat called "Mogs", pronouns "puss puss and puss'". Puss puss will need basket provision and fresh fish for lunch. Bye Mogs!

Knaves or Fools?

Or possibly both?

It also might mean that small children don't get labelled as trans because they want to wear trousers or a skirt

Then the adults need to stop applying lables to the clothes rather than placing children in clothes that don't fit them. I hate skirts but there's no denying that fir some girls they will be an easier and nore comfortable option. They should not have that option removed because parents need to assign labels to every little thing a child does

Completely daft.

Like others our girls went through phases. One wanted to be a dog, slept in a dog bed (she had a proper bed).

Four is much too young, even some adults who've gone through gender issues find it was a mistake.