New Supporting transgender young people in schools: guidance for Scottish schools

The teacher training version by LGBTYS shows a drawing of a noose instead of the pills.

(Both are bad, obviously! )

This part from the Times article is mind boggling:

“ A Scottish government spokesman said: “The infographic contained within the guidance is intended to be illustrative of the concerns which transgender young people may face. The infographic clearly contains the reference to the study as the source, and therefore is appropriate.”

Riiiight, so the infographic is merely intended to be “illustrative”, not an accurate representation of the proportion attempting suicide. Ok, then.

And as long as you include the source if your data, it is perfectly ok to include data that are, at best, misleading, and at worst, made up. Ok, then, again.

Psychiatrists don’t collude with parents against the child. What an odd thing to say.

"Teachers are not psychiatrists and shouldn't be involved in colluding with children against their parents. How utter undermining."

True. But parents aren't usually psychiatrists either. Tricky. I wouldn't want to be a psychiatrist who colludes with the parents against the child, either.

Flawed data

Just a guidance 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Says our government

Share tokens aren’t working just now but it is archived here:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2021.08.15-230618/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-guidance-for-schools-based-on-flawed-data-rp8scscll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.ph/2021.08.15-230618/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-guidance-for-schools-based-on-flawed-data-rp8scscll

I did a post with links to all the research, the survey etc in the other thread on this guidance

Sorry Eresh I can never make them work. Some bits

Government guidance aimed at making schools more inclusive for transgender children should be withdrawn because it includes “irresponsible” and “incredibly unsound” data on suicide, a former senior civil servant has said. Shirley-Anne Somerville, the education secretary, last week unveiled 70 pages of practical but not binding suggestions that are meant to make life easier for some of the country’s most vulnerable young people.

However, a section which suggests that 57 per cent of trans youths with unsupportive parents attempted to take their own lives has come under scrutiny. The figure was based on research that was carried out by the Children’s Aid Society of Toronto and Delisle Youth Services in 2012. An infographic in the Scottish government documents also states that 4 per cent of trans youths who had supportive parents attempted suicide. Lucy Hunter-Blackman, a former head of the government’s higher education division, has said that the assertion is based on dubious and “technically incompetent” data.

They never seem to mention that young women don't use loos at school if they are mixed sex. Just a thought

Anyone got a share token for the new "flawed data" piece?

So it's only 'guidnace' and schools are free to follow it or not.

The buck stops somewhere over there in the bushes.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-guidance-for-schools-based-on-flawed-data-rp8scscll

So, the guidance is flawed, but it's only guidance so it doesn't matter? In and education establishment? Who'dda thought. Didn't read all the comments, but they seem to be very good.

I wonder how long it is going to take for politicians and others in charge of public bodies to realise, they need to check everything if it comes from SW or anything similar. Perhaps they really don't care

categed
Scotland is a mess because we are being run by a woman who is more interested in being the most woke leader than any actual pressing matter.

Yep all lovely "inclusive" fluffy shite whilst the education system crumbles, they do nothing to tackle the drugs deaths & the NHS is on its knees. Still haven't published the "self ID" consultation responses

An article in TheCritic by Susan Smith from 'For Women Scotland' outlines the history and deftly highlights the nature of the Scottish Government's new guidance with its guileful paying of lip service to the law and girls' rights while proceeding to then ignore them in its conclusions.

Some other notable points she makes:

• it says the guidance is non-statutory, to avoid legal responsibility, which it puts onto schools
• it also plays on fears of self-harm or suicide
• it denies parental rights and flies in the face of safeguarding
• it emphasises capacity to consent, aged 12, to medical treatment etc (pace the High Court case of Keira Bell).

thecritic.co.uk/total-dummies/

The phrasing of the extract implies that the person who told the child he was 'disgusting' was the person who 'forced' him to change separately. And separately to whom?

As the teachers are supposed to be in charge in a school, that extract leads us to believe a child was labelled 'disgusting' by the adults in charge of his welfare. And that is, indeed, disgusting.

So who told him he was 'disgusting'? Was it girls, disgusted at the prospect of a boy forcing his way into the changing room with them? This extract could actually be showing compassionate teachers looking after both the male child who does not want to change with other boys, and the girls whose right to privacy from boys should be respected.

The guidance cites anonymous quotes from trans children, including a trans girl told she was “disgusting” and forced to change separately in case she “stared” at fellow pupils.

So a boy then. The appropriate pronoun for someone of the male sex is “he”. This is pure journalistic gaslighting without clarification.

Also in the Times, my share tokens don't work at the moment:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4321288-New-Supporting-transgender-young-people-in-schools-guidance-for-Scottish-schools

there obvs

Ah - perhaps I misinterpreted. The quotation from the article appears to be about a male pupil not being allowed to change in the girls’ changing room after PE and having to change in an individual cubicle instead. Again, how much parental support is their for teenage boys to be changing after PE in girls’ communal changing rooms?

[quote ArabellaScott]I think this might be where the msn article came from originally: www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509204.scottish-government-issues-school-guidance-support-transgender-pupils/[/quote]
That Herald article does not mention “sex” once, yet most readers will have the traditional understanding that “gender” is just a polite word for sex and be misled about what is really being discussed. The gaslighting is just so wearing. Schools are to be advised to consider converting toilets or showers to gender neutral. Why not just say, out loud, that this means mixed sex?

Another added: “I was told I was disgusting and in PE I was forced to change in a disused shower cubicle in case I 'stared at' any of the girls.”

Clearly no child should be told they’re disgusting. However, this appears to be a boy (young human male) not being allowed to shower with the girls. Why doesn’t the article actually make this clear? How much parental support is there for teenage boys (albeit ones with long hair perhaps) using communal showers with girls at school?

The nature of news coverage, IPSO guidelines etc is really part of the problem here.

Teachers are not psychiatrists and shouldn't be involved in colluding with children against their parents. How utter undermining.

As a teacher, a parent and a resident in Scotland I am really fxxxxd off with the Scottish Government. Nicola and her cabinet should all go. I am fed up reading on teacher's forums about how bad JK Rowling is with no context and all the other teachers agree and fawn. I can only inagine how many children will join in this new, keep a secret from your parents because that is fun and all your friends are doing it. It all helped long but teachers' full support. Then when law suits come, Nicola and her cronies have it covered, they won't be in trouble, no, just the school and individual teacher's who should have got better legal advice.
Good to know that letting a 4 year old make a potentially life changing decision is more important than sorting our totally messed up education system.
Scotland is a mess because we are being run by a woman who is more interested in being the most woke leader than any actual pressing matter. 😡😠🤬
Sorry for the rant just a bit pissed off!

Never been so glad not to live in Scotland! This is insane. Four year olds don’t even understand gender never mind know which gender they are. If I ask my nearly 4yo if he’s a girl or a boy he says no, I’m not a girl, I’m not a boy, I’m John. Other times he says he’s a dragon 🤷‍♀️

I think this might be where the msn article came from originally: www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509204.scottish-government-issues-school-guidance-support-transgender-pupils/

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/12/scottish-four-year-olds-can-change-gender-school-without-parents/