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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Queer theory and bestiality: LGBTQ…Z?

67 replies

RoyalCorgi · 12/08/2021 10:01

I just came across this on Twitter - though it seems to have been originally published in print in 2012.

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/abs/lgbtqz/85A2B98B6708318C7C7DAAE40D15D4C9#

I can't work out from the abstract what it's arguing, but perhaps someone else will have better luck.

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Valeriekat · 17/08/2021 09:52

Consent anyone?

IvyTwines2 · 13/08/2021 16:41

By the way, bestiality was actually legal in France until very recently, so it's not something Foucault would have had to lobby for, should he have been so inclined!

QuarantineQueen · 13/08/2021 16:15

I know it's not really funny but I can't stop laughing at this thread.
That paper seems to be based on:

  1. Freud: Eerything is always about sex, so giving your dog (or child, teddy or anything else come to that) must actually be about sex. This is the man who based all his theories on his psychiatric patients.
  2. Foucault: there should be no boundaries, all boundaries should be blurred and permeable. We all know what Foucault did and why he wanted those boundaries blurred. In fairness to this crazy professor (someone really needs to teach her some Greek, as AsTreesWalking says), this is actually a perfectly logical progression of queer theory.
CharlesDickensHairyBalls · 13/08/2021 15:39

What is it about postmodernist queer theorists? It feels like as soon as they find a hole, they start talking about how to stick a dick in it.

Triphazards · 13/08/2021 10:57

LGBTQ...S, or maybe it's SS.

Should "sheepshaggers" be two words?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/08/2021 10:52

The word "consent" appears three times. THREE TIMES. And of course only three because animals cannot consent to interspecies sexual activity and THERE is a sentence I never thought I would have to type out.

Likewise.

My earlier blitheness was a (failed) attempt to conceal my misery at the logical outcomes of people playing with post-modern theory.

IvyTwines2 · 13/08/2021 09:11

J.M. is raging on Twitter about this awful slur on the Alphabet, quote-tweeting the LGB Alliance tweet that Twitter has actually taken down for 'violating the rules' (that we shouldn't think about what the 'plus' bit is all about). Is he really not aware of all the other paraphilias that now come under the umbrella? I mean, he's on Twitter a LOT. And does he not know what Queer Theory's founding father Michel Foucault actually did, both lobbying for in print and in real world practice? 'Educate Yourself', as his side is so fond of saying.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/08/2021 09:05

To be serious though, how unlikely is this really? Queer theory is all about transgressing / dismantling boundaries. There are already MAP openly on Twitter. People speak out about the bigotry of those who kink shame. Pride in many places has become a place to show your fetishes in public. The LGB are in danger of being linked to some of these groups, and some of these groups are definitely using the LGB for forced teaming.

MondayYogurt · 13/08/2021 08:56

@GrimDamnFanjo

The LGB Alliance are being hammered on Twitter for speaking out on this.
If they'd simply tweeted a link to the paper instead...
HotelduLacluster · 13/08/2021 07:49

Barking, or should that be bxrkxng?

Childrenofthestones · 13/08/2021 07:28

So, am I transpeciesphobic because I don't fancy dogs?

AsTreesWalking · 13/08/2021 07:01

I just need to say that I love coming here to spend time with you funny, intelligent, clear-eyed women.

And - how can anyone even stay awake in Cathy Rudy's classes? Her persona of sugary 'calm reasonableness' makes me feel ill. Queer theory really does give licence to anyone to pretend to be an intellectual through the use of 'long words', interminable sentences, and muddled thinking, doesn't it.

(Sitting in bed with coffee, and my dog lying against my leg. Not in the least sexual, because I know the difference between storge and eros, and am not so obsessed with sex that it has to impinge on every bit of life)

Aparallaxia · 13/08/2021 06:02

If Trans Rights Activism were a thoroughbred rather than a pantomime horse, it would be Monstrous Hybrid by Male Entitlement and Misogyny out of Post-Modernist Woo.

MurielSpriggs · 13/08/2021 01:53

@Guineapigbridge

Queer theory= if it moves I can shag it and you can't question me.
Locomotionism at its worst.
Time40 · 13/08/2021 01:35

The love that dare not squeak its name?

Grin
GrimDamnFanjo · 13/08/2021 01:20

The LGB Alliance are being hammered on Twitter for speaking out on this.

CharlesDickensHairyBalls · 13/08/2021 01:15

If anyone wants the full horrifying text pls DM me

CharlesDickensHairyBalls · 13/08/2021 01:14

I was so appalled by this that I read the whole thing. On my reader this essay is 16 pages long - although that will include title and bibliography pages. The word "consent" appears three times. THREE TIMES. And of course only three because animals cannot consent to interspecies sexual activity and THERE is a sentence I never thought I would have to type out.

I don't care how else you rationalise or problematise it: your pets cannot consent, don't have sex with them, not everyone is okay with everything you think.

Guineapigbridge · 12/08/2021 22:44

Queer theory= if it moves I can shag it and you can't question me.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/08/2021 22:35

@Ekofisk

Does this mean that Eric Gill was an innovator of Queer Theory?
It's doubtless been a common defence in baaaaad advocacy down through centuries of legal appeals.
Ekofisk · 12/08/2021 21:53

Does this mean that Eric Gill was an innovator of Queer Theory?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/08/2021 21:49

I can't help feeling its a fake paper by Helen Pluckrose

I thought that - but is it barking enough? (Sorry - somebody had to).

Tanith · 12/08/2021 21:44

Just when I thought I couldn’t feel more nauseous! 🤮🤮

I have cats, Sockmonster. They just chew grass and throw up.

My God - this is an academic teaching this stuff to students?! 🤢

SmokedDuck · 12/08/2021 20:35

@TheSockMonster

I’ve just had a closer look at the link I posted, and I can see her whole LGBTQ…Z paper is there.

It was an interesting read.

My summary is:

  1. Queer theory says sex and sexuality are incapable of definition, therefore snuggling your dog on the sofa is a legitimate sexual experience, therefore sex with animals is potentially fine
  1. Defining things based on physical reality is like totally 20th century; gender identity is not fixed, racial identity is not fixed Hmm, therefore identifying ourselves (and our dogs) as strictly human or animal is so passé

If I’d submitted her paper as an essay when I was a student it would have come back with ‘tautological’ and ‘unsubstantiated’ scrawled all over it. Plus a follow up phone call from student support, I expect…

I agree there is this element where even things we would normally consider non-sexual are being shoe-horned into some kind of sexual interpretation in a lot of these discussions. It maybe reflects the tendency in modern culture to bring all relationship back to sex. You can't have friendship, or a parental/child relationship, in literature for example, without them somehow being related back to some sort of fundamentally sexual impulse.

In general in our culture we seem to have a hard time thinking of a romantic or marriage type relationship as something different from friendship, and that can exist wholly separately from friendship. So the latter almost gets interpreted as an incomplete kind of sexual intimacy.

TheSockMonster · 12/08/2021 19:26

@Tanith

Is it normal or bigoted to want to vomit? 🤮
Vomiting is acceptable. However, if you want to truly signal your woke rejection of the human/animal binary you’re going to have to eat it afterwards (or that’s what my dog does anyway)