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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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#AskRapeCrisisScotland

358 replies

MaudTheInvincible · 10/08/2021 19:17

Is trending at number 1 in the UK at present. I haven't been around all day so I'm not sure what this has happened in response to and came here to find out, but there aren't any threads. Heart breaking reading these stories and the effects on rape victims who can't access support services because they've been excluded by male-centring policy.

OP posts:
CharlieParley · 11/08/2021 16:17

Dear lurkermom I am glad you recognise the problems with what MW said. I'd like to clarify a few things though about the rest of your comment.

That being said - some of the comments on here citing MAN and ridiculing pictures of this human. Well to be honest . I’m shocked at this. Why ? Doesn’t really make you any better to be so cruel and SO vindictive.

I am not a believer in the doctrine of gender identity. I am an atheist. Just as I do not espouse any other religious beliefs, I won't espouse this one. So when I use the word "man", I use it correctly as a sex designator word for adult human males, just like "stallion" or "bull" are sex designator words for adult male animals.

Believers in the doctrine of gender identity posit that the word "man" is not a sex designator word, but a personality designator - a man is a person who manifests preferences for masculine-coded clothes or activities or jobs or behaviours.

So to recap,

Believers in the doctrine of gender identity say
A man is a person who has a particular personality and can be male or female.

Everyone else says:
A man is a person who is male and can have any type of personality.

Now I respect the right of those believers to do so. And to say so publicly. In return, I expect to be shown the same respect in not being forced to use (or avoid using) the word "man" as if I too believed it referred to personality and not sex. It is neither an act of bullying nor is it cruel or vindictive for me to refuse to espouse the views of believers in a faith I do not share. This is as true for the doctrine of gender identity as it is for Catholicism, Buddhism or Paganism.

On the Guilty Feminist thread, I posted this about MW:

I've met MW at an event in the Scottish Parliament. I'm hypervigilant, so I read MW as male both in person and on video. There's simply no way I would have been able to disclose to MW even without knowing all of this. I carried so much shame and guilt that I knew no man could comprehend and I needed to talk to a female counsellor.

That's not a judgement on MW's appearance nor an expression of ridicule. It is a simple statement of fact. I read the sex of this person as male. I cannot therefore reach a state from which recovery from the trauma of male violence is possible in their presence.

This is my truth.

According to decades of research into female victims of male violence as well as many frontline workers and a number of surveys of female victims of male violence, this is the truth for 99% of us - we need a female-only therapeutic environment to recover from the trauma caused by male violence.

It is neither an act of bullying nor is it cruel or vindictive for women like me to express our anger, however raw and uncensored, at being condemned because our involuntary trauma responses to the presence of males also happen in the presence of males who identify otherwise. And to be threatened with re-education that is nothing more than brainwashing in aid of an ideology that has no place in counselling.

It is an act of self-care and self-love for a female survivor to express her need for a female-only service. Especially in the face of MW's words. And it is an act of compassion and love for others to defend my right to express my needs and to have those needs met.

It is an act of bullying and unspeakably cruel to deny us the help we need.

Cruelty is never a helpful Way forward . Have we not Learned this?

What I have learned in the four years I've been active on this issue is that appeasement is never a helpful way forward when male desires are conflicting with female needs. And that it is cruel to female victims not to stand up to those demanding that we acquiesce to male desires out of the kindness of our hearts.

It's not kindness when it harms others. And what you are exhorting us to do, to give in to believers of the doctrine of gender identity in order to be kind to them is harmful to us.

Beefcurtains79 · 11/08/2021 16:11

Twitter appear to be trying to bury the hashtag.

littlbrowndog · 11/08/2021 16:05

#AskRapeCrisisScotland was trending at 24k. A minute ago. Then disappeared 🤷‍♀️

littlbrowndog · 11/08/2021 16:03

Scotland my country. 🤕🤕🤦‍♀️😢

#AskRapeCrisisScotland
Selkiesarereal · 11/08/2021 15:51

@BuffysBigSister thanks for this - someone kindly pm’d me with this info.

Sadly can’t make the demo because of work but going to create a new Twitter account that is not linked to my children’s school and my job and check out those sites.

Jorrris · 11/08/2021 15:50

They're such bloody liars aren't they. This is their tactic for getting people onside. By lying to them. Because no one in their right mind would support this insanity otherwise.

Doyoumind · 11/08/2021 15:48

@beastlyslumber

Sorry, haven't RTFT, but what's really awful is seeing TRA tweets about how women are trying to close down rape crisis because we don't want transwomen to receive services?????

Is this deliberate, this LIE about what's actually being said? It doesn't matter if it's deliberately evil or just brainwashed stupidity, I suppose. The effect is the same.

Mhairi Hunter is trending for accusing GCs of saying TW shouldn't receive support for sexual assault. No one is saying that. Absolutely no one and least of all GC feminists. Of course there should be adequate provision. There should also be adequate provision of female only services for females who require that.
Bosky · 11/08/2021 15:44

Letter to Newspapers about Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre.

Background:
forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

You need to DM @/MaryHowden on Twitter if you want her to add your signature to this Letter to the newspapers about Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre.
twitter.com/MaryHowden

If Mary is not following you, you cannot DM her so you need to Follow her and tweet to her asking her to Follow you - then you will be able to DM her:

Screenshots of the Letter are in these tweets by @/shirleysascott on Twitter:
twitter.com/shirleysascot/status/1425330162804068354

ColourMagic · 11/08/2021 15:09

Does anyone have a Sharetoken for todays article in the Times (Wed 11th)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bigoted-people-may-be-challenged-comments-by-trans-head-of-edinburgh-rape-crisis-sparks-controversy-xdcpfr0cv

Thank You x

BuffysBigSister · 11/08/2021 15:08

@Selkiesarereal

For someone who rarely posts in this section but is an avid reader, what can I do, where do I complain to make my voice heard?

I feel very strongly that our female rights in Scotland are under threat, we keep getting told there is nothing to worry about and then this happens. I want to do something but have no idea where to start.

In Scotland I would start by checking out forwomen.scot/ Also if you are on Twitter maybe look for @VoteWithOurFeet

There is a demo in Edinburgh on Sept 2nd - For Women Scotland will probably have details if someone hasn't already posted on this thread

Artichokeleaves · 11/08/2021 14:58

Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.

Oh the drama.

Hyperbolic crap. This has never happened. This is just a useful exaggeration to try and desperately bat away the reality for females.

#nothankyou

#womenarenotbloodycollateraldamageinmalebestlives

merrymouse · 11/08/2021 14:55

According to the article:

In a statement it [Rape Crisis Scotland] said: “Sexual violence is gendered and has a disproportionate impact on women and girls; our services reflect that. Women-only spaces are a core principle of the Rape Crisis movement and are upheld through our National Service Standards.

But those words are absolutely meaningless if ‘gender’ and ‘woman’ are subjective terms that have no objective reality. They might as well just type words randomly.

Their apparent belief that a rapist cares about the inner identity of a victim is very worrying.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 11/08/2021 14:54

Starting to wonder if CatherinaJTV is deep stealth & cunningly posting to make the absurdities of the trans extremists arguments clearer to newbies 👀

Jackgrealishscurtains · 11/08/2021 14:50

indeed. Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.

Oh sweet holy Jesus...

Firstly, are you seriously comparing a male who raped women and then went on to sexually assault the women he was incarcerated in a female prison with, to those tweets?

Secondly, Karen White is not 'used' in the way you so disingenuously state. Karen White illustrates what happens when you allow loopholes in the law which allow someone in a high risk class (male) to simply 'self identify' into a low risk group (female).

theThreeofWeevils · 11/08/2021 14:46

Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists demonstrate the risk of housing male sex offenders in the female prison estate. There. FTFY.

AnyOldPrion · 11/08/2021 14:45

indeed. Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.

Can you quote me any post from Mumsnet or even from Twitter where someone makes this claim please?

334bu · 11/08/2021 14:45

indeed. Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.

A couple of angry tweets is hardly comparable. Not all men are rapists but 99% of sex offenders are male. Not all prisoners are sex offenders but 19% of male prisoners and nearly half of trans prisoners in the male prison estate are sex offenders.
The one thing 99% of sex offenders have in common is that they are all male. Transwomen are just as likely to be sex offenders as any other member of the male sex.

merrymouse · 11/08/2021 14:44

Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.

No. Karen White shows how self ID policies have been manipulated. This is not the only example.

KW is representative of manipulative, dangerous, abusive men.

KW’s behaviour and the real threat posed to women by the policies that enabled it are also not comparable to these tweets.

Jackgrealishscurtains · 11/08/2021 14:40

@AfternoonToffee

If those examples of Tweets were sent to ERC then they need to be strongly condemned. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of this the mud sticks a lot more on the GC.
Do you mean the ones Rape Crisis Scotland screenshotted and posted? It struck me that those tweets were angry and what would be described as 'unkind' but they were not threatening or violent in any way.

And people are angry about this. I am still finding it difficult to actually process what MW actually said on that podcast tbh.

CatherinaJTV · 11/08/2021 14:36

@AfternoonToffee

No the mud sticks where it should!

Except it doesn't, these will be used as a beating stick to tell everyone how awful GC's are.

indeed. Like Karen White is used to tell everyone how all trans women are rapists.
FOJN · 11/08/2021 14:31

I would imagine that, if there were any worse tweets/ messages, they would have been posted.

Funny how there are never any receipts to support the "both sides as bad as each other" narrative.

ERC are supposed to support traumatised women but have chosen to compound their abuse and then have the absolute fucking temerity to play the victim.

334bu · 11/08/2021 14:18

I would imagine that, if there were any worse tweets/ messages, they would have been posted. Therefore I reckon it is safe to assume that Rape Crisis Scotland received nothing more abusive than the comments they posted in that tweet.

Selkiesarereal · 11/08/2021 14:14

For someone who rarely posts in this section but is an avid reader, what can I do, where do I complain to make my voice heard?

I feel very strongly that our female rights in Scotland are under threat, we keep getting told there is nothing to worry about and then this happens. I want to do something but have no idea where to start.

merrymouse · 11/08/2021 14:13

Apparently the organisation believes that people can recover from trauma by agreeing to be gaslit.

This is horrific.

PronounssheRa · 11/08/2021 14:10

@AfternoonToffee

If those examples of Tweets were sent to ERC then they need to be strongly condemned. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of this the mud sticks a lot more on the GC.
If its the ones I have seen there's a bit of swearing and anger. No death threats, rape threats, dick pics. Unless there are worse that I have missed I can't get worked up about them. Women are furious and rightly so.