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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I’m confused: ‘The Spark Company’

60 replies

OhDear2200 · 08/08/2021 22:13

The Spark Company keeps popping up on my Facebook feed so thought I would have a look. Found lots of posts interesting until I got to a post about how their feminism includes trans women as they are women.

This is within many posts about women rising against the patriarchy.

I’m confused. Do trans women suffer from the patriarchy being biologically men?

Can transwomen suffer from sexism?

This is a genuine question I’m worried I’m being naive. I don’t want anyone (however they identify) to suffer discrimination or abuse. But I can’t help feeling (possibly irrationally) a bit peeved that trans women get to claim to be on the receiving end of the ‘patriarchy’.

Apparently this is progressive feminism.

Am I backwards?

OP posts:
OurMamInHavianas · 10/08/2021 01:19

@lexxi87

To the OP

So as a trans woman, i can say that being judged on your looks is taken to an extreme, i know women are judged on their looks and have what i feel are reasonable beliefs here, but i can't even go to the hospital without doing all my makeup, hair, nice clothes etc... because anything less then 100% makes it hard for ppl to accept me and even then i don't "pass", I've almost died this year from an overdose that lasted 6 days, would not go to the hospital, similar thing late last year with a possible blood clot, told to go to the hospital ASAP but wouldn't, couldn't walk for almost 3 weeks, finally went when it was feeling better one morning.

As for sexism, i know what it's like to be sexually assaulted, not just in pubs but at my own front door, multiple times by the same person and multiple people, being groomed for months to make me feel safe in dangerous situations before they became un-safe and i realised. So far since 2019 just counting sexual physical contact it's happened 23 times, there's more then that though.

Looks are literally the single most important aspect to every interaction you will ever have in your life as a trans woman, everything else people can let slide but how you look is the only thing you'll be judged on which is quite sad but is how the world works, and not a standard i hold against other women, as a result people see me always trying to look my best and think i'm shallow AF, because no one else goes all out just for a blood test at the doctors or a therapy zoom call, but given the choices i have being assumed to be shallow is the least of evils.

Not going to pretend i'm super clued up on sexism, patriarchy, misogyny, male privilege and all that, i still don't understand male privilege and don't feel i experienced any as a guy, I've asked a friend to explain it to me who knows me well but she never replies to my texts, as a guy people didn't even care if i died or ended up homeless, now though if i blip up on anyone's radar i get picked up and given help, it's like my life is suddenly worth less then zero or something.

I know I'm not welcome here on mumsnet as a trans woman, and originally i came here to ask a question to mums about something that confuses me about society as I've seen the debate it pop up on facebook again, nothing to do with trans / anti-trans stuff, probably related to women's and specifically mother's rights but don't think this forum is the best place to post it given the other posts here.

If you don’t “pass” anyway, why bother? Be proud of being a man who pushes against “masculine’ stereotypes. Many women will support you in that. Also, for your medical treatment, you need to be treated as a biological man as your symptoms and health issues will be very different from those of biological women.

Please get the medical help you need when you need it - don’t delay getting hospital treatment etc.

Also, “trans woman” (with a space) makes you sound like you are a transman. “Transwoman” (without a space) is clearer.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 00:07

To the OP

So as a trans woman, i can say that being judged on your looks is taken to an extreme, i know women are judged on their looks and have what i feel are reasonable beliefs here, but i can't even go to the hospital without doing all my makeup, hair, nice clothes etc... because anything less then 100% makes it hard for ppl to accept me and even then i don't "pass", I've almost died this year from an overdose that lasted 6 days, would not go to the hospital, similar thing late last year with a possible blood clot, told to go to the hospital ASAP but wouldn't, couldn't walk for almost 3 weeks, finally went when it was feeling better one morning.

As for sexism, i know what it's like to be sexually assaulted, not just in pubs but at my own front door, multiple times by the same person and multiple people, being groomed for months to make me feel safe in dangerous situations before they became un-safe and i realised. So far since 2019 just counting sexual physical contact it's happened 23 times, there's more then that though.

Looks are literally the single most important aspect to every interaction you will ever have in your life as a trans woman, everything else people can let slide but how you look is the only thing you'll be judged on which is quite sad but is how the world works, and not a standard i hold against other women, as a result people see me always trying to look my best and think i'm shallow AF, because no one else goes all out just for a blood test at the doctors or a therapy zoom call, but given the choices i have being assumed to be shallow is the least of evils.

Not going to pretend i'm super clued up on sexism, patriarchy, misogyny, male privilege and all that, i still don't understand male privilege and don't feel i experienced any as a guy, I've asked a friend to explain it to me who knows me well but she never replies to my texts, as a guy people didn't even care if i died or ended up homeless, now though if i blip up on anyone's radar i get picked up and given help, it's like my life is suddenly worth less then zero or something.

I know I'm not welcome here on mumsnet as a trans woman, and originally i came here to ask a question to mums about something that confuses me about society as I've seen the debate it pop up on facebook again, nothing to do with trans / anti-trans stuff, probably related to women's and specifically mother's rights but don't think this forum is the best place to post it given the other posts here.

Novelusername · 09/08/2021 00:24

@Whatsnewpussyhat

A subset of males who tell us 'woman' is nothing but a figment of their imaginations, that we must submit to their every demand, ignore our sexual orientations and use only the words they permit, removing our sex based protections and claiming our oppression as their own?

THEY ARE THE FUCKING PATRIARCHY!!!!

Males controlling females.
Same shit, different outfit.

Completely agree. This new ideology is a repetition of previous misogynistic philosophies that pondered how women just aren't fully human, that we don't have souls, that we're just a concept in men's heads which aligns with what they can use us for, our own experiences and material reality completely ignored in favour of men's feelings and sexual urges.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 09/08/2021 00:08

A subset of males who tell us 'woman' is nothing but a figment of their imaginations, that we must submit to their every demand, ignore our sexual orientations and use only the words they permit, removing our sex based protections and claiming our oppression as their own?
THEY ARE THE FUCKING PATRIARCHY!!!!

Star
Whatsnewpussyhat · 08/08/2021 23:20

A subset of males who tell us 'woman' is nothing but a figment of their imaginations, that we must submit to their every demand, ignore our sexual orientations and use only the words they permit, removing our sex based protections and claiming our oppression as their own?

THEY ARE THE FUCKING PATRIARCHY!!!!

Males controlling females.
Same shit, different outfit.

Toomanyradishes · 08/08/2021 23:12

I think anyone can suffer from the patriarchy, little boys being told they cant cry because thats what girls do, they cant like pink or play with dolls etc etc, or that boys will be boys so they dont learn boundaries etc, and more delicate boys being made to toughen up etc. Isnt the point that everyone suffers under patriarchy its just that ultimately women tend to suffer more but its partly because of the way men are expected to be
So I guess there is no reason why transwomen dont also suffer under the patriarchy, its just its different for different people
The patriarchy isnt necessarily just sexist behaviour to women, its a society and system that moulds men and women into specific roles, so in that case yeah I guess I can see how transwomen and transmen would suffer
Something a friend shared of facebook stuck with me, although I cant remember exactly how it was said but essentially
The patriarchy has done a good job of convincing men women are over emotional, whilst simultaneously convincing them anger isnt an emotion so thats all they have left, maybe thats where some of the anger from TRAs originates from?

Anotheruser02 · 08/08/2021 23:07

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KittenKong · 08/08/2021 22:58

This isn’t feminism...

BlackForestCake · 08/08/2021 22:57

Those who are perceived as women by others can suffer sexism.

Those perceived as men suffer homophobia.

They suffer from the patriarchy in the same way as other men. Not the same way as women.

ArabellaScott · 08/08/2021 22:46

I suppose transwomen can suffer from sexism, but not in the way that women do.

I don't know about patriarchy, I'm not sure I've ever really understood the term properly. Seems a bit abstract to me. Tired of abstractions. I think we need pragmatic solutions to life's issues for everyone, really, not more theories.

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