I think I’m going mad….

I suspect they have gone to try to find more trope to try out on us.

YOU CANNOT COMPEL OTHERS. That isn't transphobia, it's our human rights

Thank you Maya Forstater for striking a blow against compelled thinking and beliefs.

Oooh, OP, there's an idea for you. Cut off their wifi access.

Maybe Blues mum has changed the WiFi password.

I am still waiting for Blue to tell us why they have claimed the mantle for speaking for trans people the way they have.

Why exactly are they here speaking as though they speak for all trans people? Using racist and homophobic trope.

Yet they also seem to have forgotten to say anything at all about female trans people too. Rather sexist behaviour that.

Negging’ is when predatory men insult women to lower their self-esteem in order to manipulate them. Has this been happening on the scale of a movement?

Yes. It's not working anymore.

Uncommon Ground Media
Dr Em
Are Transactivists Negging Feminism and the LGB?
June 4, 2020
(extract)
‘Negging’ is when predatory men insult women to lower their self-esteem in order to manipulate them. Has this been happening on the scale of a movement?
‘You are transphobic!’, ‘That is transphobic!’, ‘TERF!’.

Everything and everyone at some point is transphobic, not inclusionary enough. Women who understand that women as a class face sex-based discrimination are called ‘Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists’ and the acronym is treated as a heinous mark by the woke. Similarly, those who know that lesbians don’t have penises, or that same-sex attraction is real are branded ‘TERF’. (continues)

The manosphere has been grabbing media attention as ‘The sexist world has become a recruiting ground for potential mass shooters’, ‘We need to talk about the online radicalisation of young, white men’ and supposedly the manosphere communities are becoming more toxic, showing nihilistic and extreme anti-women ideologies according to recent studies. Negging is a method of the men’s rights movement. We see ‘negging’ used en mass by the sex industry as its advocates argue that those who oppose the sale of mostly female flesh to men are alleged to be ‘sex-negative’, those who oppose filmed sexual violence against women (porn) are supposedly ‘sex negative’, ‘prudish’ or ‘frigid’. Why would negging not be utilized by trans rights activists?

Negging is using a negative comment to initiate contact and force a woman to prove it is untrue, it belittles a woman’s confidence and makes women desire the accuser’s approval. This permits a way in for the manipulator and silences that gut feeling that something is not right. Described by Gavin De Becker as ‘typecasting’ the negative label compels a challenge, he used the real occasion of a rapist alleging a woman was too proud to accept assistance to gain access to her car. The woman’s desire to be liked by the man and not thought ‘proud’ prevented her from asking the natural safety questions in her mind – who is he, why is he here, do I feel comfortable?." (continues)

uncommongroundmedia.com/are-transactivists-negging-feminism-and-the-lgb/

Yep, it's really quite something isn't it. Woman seeks help and support. Teen male arrogantly derails for own gains. I hope this isn't ops son. For her sake. Imagine having a child like this.

Interesting thread. Started with a woman upset that her family are giving her a hard time for supporting women's and girls rights, and now has descended into posters trying to shame lesbians out of being same-sex attracted.
This is the modern trans movement in a thread.

Is it science or English teaching that is missing?

It's quite unusual to have a word that means 2 completely different things depending on the context after all

Like to me female is the same concept in humans snd other animals, but clearly to done it isn't

What other nouns in English work that way?

I think @BluebirdsSong's contributions to the thread have been incredibly useful.

Incredibly useful for bringing more sunlight ☀️ and showing just how misogynistic and homophobic this damaging ideology truly is.

Oh gosh, the gift that keeps on giving.

I do think that PP should at least have a background education in scientific fact. Maybe this isn't taught at school anymore.

You cannot have a male bodied lesbian. Being a lesbian is a sexual orientation (a protected characteristic), where a female sex person is attracted to a female sexed person. It is homophobic to expect them to be attracted to anyone with a penis.

You see the protected characteristic of gender reassignment IS NOT more important than the other 8 protected characteristics. This is where you are getting it completely wrong.

They are equal but separate.

Stop bullying lesbians. Or women. Or children.

Be whatever you want, but have some respect.

We do not believe in your ideology and WE DO NOT HAVE TO.

YOU CANNOT COMPEL OTHERS. That isn't transphobia, it's our human rights.

Article: The Declaration of Independence’s debt to Black America
When African Americans allied themselves with the British, the Patriots were enraged, and they acted.

“African Americans played a crucial, if often overlooked, role in their White owners’ and neighbors’ decision to declare independence from Britain.”
…
But by shifting the focus of the Declaration of Independence from states’ rights to human rights, abolitionists and feminists made it one of the most successful freedom documents ever composed.

twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1411711260140392450

archive link to the Washington Post piece: archive.is/nwMwP

I'm sure it's supremely messy but I'm always fascinated when there are interesting perspectives on historical events. [/merail]

Book: www.amazon.co.uk/Liberty-Sweet-History-American-Revolution/dp/1476750378/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Some feminists somewhere said "kill all men", does that mean the entirety of feminism should be condemned for being androcidal?

No they didn't. Don't be silly.

I learned an interesting historical point recently (sorry for derail, but worth sharing I think) when visiting a museum dedicated to female authors.
Slavery in the UK would have been abolished decades earlier than it actually was if women had had the vote. Just came back into my mind when reading a post further upthread.

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?

There is no 'counting as female'. People are either female or male. If two adult males are romantically/sexually involved this is a homosexual relationship. Those involved may be gay or bisexual but neither are female sex or lesbians.

I'm sure debating terms will sort it out this time.

So what is female?

Are humans the only mammal which doesn't obey the usual pattern of innies and outies ?

[quote BluebirdsSong]@FloralBunting
"Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition."

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?[/quote]
No, they would be the bisexuals, if they're also attracted to females.

Do keep up.

@FloralBunting
"Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition."

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?

Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition.

Yep.