Lionel Shriver in the Times

I’m another who doesn’t really like her, but I can’t for the life of me remember why.

[quote RoastChicory]I haven’t read the latest article yet but Lionel Shriver is great on this subject as as a teenager she changed her name from Margaret to Lionel.

This is an article she wrote in 2016.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/gender-good-for-nothing[/quote]
Wow, that's a brilliant article.

Lucid article. Shriver is an excellent writer.

Oops didn’t mean to post that! Also dislike LS but glad to see her viewpoint on this issue.

Aa

It can even be found on page 2 of the bestselling hardbacks at Waterstones.

What a genius decision by all those brave people in the publishing industry to let this one go.

Thank you for posting that Igneococcus, an excellent article. Also very interesting to read the editors' responses to Helen Joyce's book proposal. The publishing industry is not what one would consider brave and prefers to pick up the sure seller, so it's always amusing when they call it wrong. (Trans is currently #19 on the Amazon Bestseller list, an awesome achievement.)

Have just had a look at the comments under the article and they're excellent. Over 1800 of them with the vast majority (that I've read) supportive with lots of knowledge and expertise shared. .

I long held a dislike of Lionel Shriver but since I've been following the issue of the gender identity ideology I realised I needed to focus on what she was saying, a mixture of right and wrong, rather than my feelings about who she is.

Taking a discussion between Douglas Murray and Shriver linked to on another thread, have a look at the concluding remarks by Shriver and how she resists going for the most convenient conclusion:

I'm still not sure what I think about her but now I welcome that she wants to contribute to a debate.

@RoastChicory thanks for this link. Brilliant article, she's right, with her childhood gender expression she would be at massive risk today.

[quote RoastChicory]I haven’t read the latest article yet but Lionel Shriver is great on this subject as as a teenager she changed her name from Margaret to Lionel.

This is an article she wrote in 2016.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/gender-good-for-nothing[/quote]
This article is absolutely brilliant. Totally spot on.

Trying to think of subtle way of getting my three DDs to read it. Youngest one has well and truly swallowed all the woo bulls**t.

Good to know re Hislop. It’s not that surprising as Private Eye has been good on this recently but nice to see him put it so clearly nonetheless.

The Times readership are thoroughly GC, though the Times, in true tradition will always give the opposing view space. The comments are excellent, so is the piece but like others I'm not a fan of LS

Thanks for sharing that essay @RoastChicory

I'd say so @TheCountessofFitzdotterel. Hislop is an Anglican afaik. Always struck me as a moderate Conservative type. Like Parris

Like other posters I can't stand the woman , she's a real bitter pill of a racist. But she has a clever turn of phrase a la Burchill. The more the merrier on this topic.

Do you think this comment is by the actual Ian Hislop?

Thanks OP, and excellent article.

Thank goodness Matthew Parris is away!

I haven’t read the latest article yet but Lionel Shriver is great on this subject as as a teenager she changed her name from Margaret to Lionel.

This is an article she wrote in 2016.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/gender-good-for-nothing

Excellent article.

Somehow, I'm much happier when it's framed in terms of "Reality, dammit!" "Facts, for God's sake!" than the whole free speech angle.

I mean, I'm all for free speech. It's even more important to point out that what's being suppressed is speech about facts.

I feel encouraged when I see articles like this, especially with the supportive comments.....

I can't think of anyone on the trans side who is a decent writer.

Adam Wagner who is a definite sympathiser and tends to overlook that women have human rights that are compromised is a decent writer (not gifted but –ish). Several other (male) lawyers - none of whom I can name but are reasonable writers in the way that so may barristers/lawyers are when they're accustomed to writing briefs.

Helena Kennedy - decent writer, TWAW even if she doesn't write much beyond the tired slogans on this specific topic.

I was just thinking, having read OJ’s scrawl earlier, all of these awful people on the wrong side of history really can write.

I was thinking exactly the same thing! Douglas Murray may be far right, or hard right, or whatever it is OJ accuses him of being, but he's a much better writer than OJ. Helen Joyce is also extremely lucid. Janice Turner is a superb columnist who, unlike Owen, has won Columnist of the Year. I can't think of anyone on the trans side who is a decent writer.

cariadlet she does write really well on this topic. I was just thinking, having read OJ’s scrawl earlier, all of these awful people on the wrong side of history really can write.

One sceptical British editor wrote, “Debate over trans issues is incredibly polarised and siloed, and if we are going to torch our own credentials as woke members in good standing we would prefer to do it for a book that has some chance of selling.”

More fool you! Well done Helen Joyce and shame on Waterstones too.