Deleted/censorship on mumsnet now!

We know where the arguments are headed and it's not in the direction of women's rights (and certainly not trans widows rights)."

If you read again you will notice that you say -
"We know where the arguments are headed and it's not in the direction of women's rights (and certainly not trans widows rights)."

The inference from that is that I am pushing the trans rights agenda is it not ?
Unless there is another group involved ?

I would be interested to know what you think I am "trying to do"

I haven't said a thing about trans rights though, why would I discuss that here?
Read again, I said trans widow's rights.

I don't claim to be a woman, I wish I was but I'm not and that's a fact that can't be denied.
I am a transwoman...

Gender devotees have managed to invent maybe a hundred words for different genders, yet the men who know that they aren't women, but like to be seen as women, choose to use a word that uses woman to describe themselves. What are the odds?

Imasoulman Do you think it 'unkind' of women or children to accurately describe an adult male as a man?

How about when an adult male has disclosed his autogynephillia, should women and children feel inhibited in accurately describing him as a man?

When women and children accurately recognise male sex and adulthood, these two significant features are indicated in the noun, 'man'.

The quote you have taken from my post was a response to a question, nothing more.
I really hope you are not accusing me of coercion !

Women and children (especially) should not be coerced to not freely recognise and name adulthood and male sex in an individual.
Censorship takes many forms, including more subtle suggestions that lead to self-censorship

Yes I agree with this.

[quote Ninkanink]**@Imasoulman* I echo what @Chickenyhead* has said above.

This has never been about hate.[/quote]
Thank you

I am a transwoman, I have thick skin though so if you want to call me a man although at times it can be upsetting and hurtful I'm not about to have a meltdown over it.

Women and children (especially) should not be coerced to not freely recognise and name adulthood and male sex in an individual.
Censorship takes many forms, including more subtle suggestions that lead to self-censorship.

I think it could be workable, but it's certainly not going to happen overnight.
There would need to be political leaders with the balls to stand up and say that the current situation is ludicrous and that laws need to be laid down that actually make sense.
Perhaps we need more women at the top end of policy making.

I have my own definition of what "transexual " means so for me its easy to differentiate.
I'm old enough to remember the "good old days " when the difference was clear.

You are right I think that getting people to see and accept the difference would be a hurdle.

I am a transwoman, I have thick skin though so if you want to call me a man although at times it can be upsetting and hurtful I'm not about to have a meltdown over it

I wouldn't call you a man, purely because you have been respectful here and requested not to be. Which is fine.

Those who demand control over my language however are another matter.

Trans women aren't men, and it is transphobic to call trans women men

Only in your opinion. As I'm sure you know, being gender critical is a protected belief ☺️

And thank you for talking to your friends. It really is appreciated.

@Imasoulman I echo what @Chickenyhead has said above.

This has never been about hate.

[quote Chickenyhead]@imasoulman

I feel for transwomen in your position.

The actions of TRAs and SW are lumping you in with a larger group including some women haters and abusers.

This will have an unfortunate backlash on you. Now that truly is transphobic and horrific.

[/quote]

Thank you

I haven't said a thing about trans rights though, why would I discuss that here?

I don't think that there are any trans rights that need fighting for anyway.

I am all for single sex spaces, women only sport etc etc.
I want to see the rights and protections that women need put back in place.

I have been talking to my friends about the points and concerns that I have seen raised here.
Already made two people realise the impact that they have on women if they use the ladies for instance, a small thing I know but it helps spread the message.

@imasoulman

I feel for transwomen in your position.

The actions of TRAs and SW are lumping you in with a larger group including some women haters and abusers.

This will have an unfortunate backlash on you. Now that truly is transphobic and horrific.

Yes I am on your first three points, believe me I detest Stonewall for reasons I have previously mentioned.

Difficult for me to get involved in grass roots womens groups for obvious reasons.

No to the next two points but I don't see a problem with the word" transwoman" as opposed to woman.
I don't claim to be a woman, I wish I was but I'm not and that's a fact that can't be denied.
I am a transwoman, I have thick skin though so if you want to call me a man although at times it can be upsetting and hurtful I'm not about to have a meltdown over it.

Yes I agree stereotypes are harmful especially for younger people.

No. I'm prepared to accept the rules of MN which is not to use the label of man or woman on someone who has rejected it; however male and female are factual realities, not identities, and to express my own beliefs which are based in factual reality, it is necessary to be clear on who is male and who is female.

TW are male. That is the one single deciding factor on who gets to be a TW. No one who is not male can be one.

You cannot compel other people's beliefs or enforce their participation.

My suggestion - as always - when derailers appear is to employ the scroll button.

It really isn't transphobic to state that transwomen are male by sex.

That's scientific fact.

Biology.

Reality.

[quote BluebirdsSong]@FloralBunting
Trans women aren't men, and it is transphobic to call trans women men.[/quote]
They're men. Every cell in their body is male.

Great post Purgatory.

And this is happening at the same time as an apparent push against conversion therapy.

Here is a set of questions for Bluebird. I'd appreciate his answers.

extract

10a) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through exploration of gender theory and re-framing of her perceptions of what it means to be a man or woman, would this be an appropriate response?

10b) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through damaging her opportunities to access employment, housing, and social support networks as a response to non-compliance, would this be an appropriate response?

10c) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through re-education at a dedicated facility, would this be an appropriate response?

10d) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through aversion therapy — inducing, for example, intense self-loathing and worthlessness in response to undesirable feelings– would this be an appropriate response?

10e) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through electroshock therapy, would this be an appropriate response?

10f) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was throughinternment followed by six months of brothel work followed by murder, would this be an appropriate response?

10g) if not, why not?

Source: apacificisland.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/unanswered-unanswerable-alt-title-agenda/