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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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777 replies

HermioneKipper · 06/08/2021 10:34

My thread asking about transwomen/transitioning/penises has been deleted.

Why are we not allowed to discuss this? It’s a genuine question and extremely relevant to the debate about transwomen entering female spaces.

There was no abuse of trans people that I could see aside from a few people attempting to derail by saying that they couldn’t see why women might be concerned about having to share their space!

This isn’t right

OP posts:
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HermioneKipper · 07/08/2021 14:47

@Flamglimglubberty

*Think about what that thread was actually saying. That people should remove a part of their body. Judging whether or not a person should remain in tact, without knowing anything about individual trans people's journeys, lives and experiences.

It's horrific, and it was coming from a large majority of people who are not themselves trans.*

Can we just take a moment to appreciate the irony of us being told not to discuss something we have no experience of... As if that's not the exact thing women have been requesting. Literally all we want is for male born persons to cease dictating how we should feel about situations they have no lived experience of.

THIS

There seems to be absolutely no concept of the level of double standards shown here. It’s almost funny. Except everyone’s going down the rabbit hole

OP posts:
HermioneKipper · 07/08/2021 14:42

@Aparallaxia

onelittlefrog says 'People on that thread were talking about whether they felt it was permissable for a human being to keep a part of their own bodily anatomy.

'Think about what that thread was actually saying. That people should remove a part of their body. Judging whether or not a person should remain in tact, without knowing anything about individual trans people's journeys, lives and experiences.

'It's horrific, and it was coming from a large majority of people who are not themselves trans. Many of them may never have even spoken to a trans person, or got a trans person's side of this debate.'

  1. Thank you for mansplaining our ignorance to us. Much appreciated, I'm sure. Obviously no-one here has ever so much as been in the same room as a transwoman or transman and has no idea what trans people say about themselves.
  2. No-one is advocating that people mutilate their bodies; indeed, that is why so many of us here are deeply opposed to transitioning for children, who cannot consent to such mutilations or other medical interventions.
  3. However, this site is for women to discuss things that affect women and girls. One of these is the actuality—and it is a reality, not just the possibility—that XY people, including ones who have penises and have not undergone any sort of medical intervention, are being allowed into spaces in which XX people should be safest, should be protected and feel at their ease. If such places are not safe, this is going to be even more scary for XX people than their usual experiences dealing with unpleasant, entitled, threatening, abusive, or violent people who behave in these ways because they are XY. This is especially the case because, as everyone knows, penises have a life of their own, especially where straight men [and here I include soi-disants lesbians-with-penises] are in the presence of half-clothed or naked women and girls (not to mention some more pervy behaviour to do with loos).
  4. Even people who somehow "feel" they are female without being XX must surely agree that, unless they surgically altered their bodies and started taking powerful drugs in childhood, they themselves do not have any first-hand experience of what it is like to grow up without a penis, or to have to engage with people who do when they do not. Hence, they really ought to stand back and respect the experiences of unbepenised people and their reactions to seeing a male-bodied person in places that are meant to be safe for XX people. That is why the question of transwomen keeping their penises is relevant to us. We are not demanding they chop off their members: we are demanding that, if they don't, they should keep out of our spaces, and, if they do, asking them to take a moment, just out of respect, to consider what it might mean for a woman to see a large, powerfully-built male-sized person in a female space.

In short: if anyone is out of order here, it is you, mate.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
OP posts:
Jorrris · 07/08/2021 14:30

@GCAcademic

Perhaps instead of "scroll on by", we need to remember "don't squeeze that spot"?
Yes. Don't squeeze. Infection risk. As my dear mother would say.
Shuffleuplove · 07/08/2021 14:23

Exactly. And that’s why Anya Palmer the barrister representing that social worker from Tavistock, is so dead against them. She was their Counsel for years.

R0wantrees · 07/08/2021 14:14

The concept of AGP has only been around for a couple of decades so if anything was a euphemism which it's not, it would be the other way around.

The sooner we all stop worrying about what Stonewall say the better.
They are only motivated by the need of a financial revenue nothing else, they won the battle for Gay equality and suddenly found themselves redundant and so took up the Trans banner.

Most sensible Trans people know that Stomewall do more harm than good.

Somehow we need to make government aware that we don't want or need Stonewall.

As my previous post (p17) illustrates, the lobby group Press For Change explicitly advocated from its beginning for those male members with autogynephillia who have at various times identified as transvestites, cross-dressers, dual-role, transgender, transsexual and/or trans people,

Ibid. 2007 submission to parliament by Press For Change,
(extract)

"In the broadest use of the term, a transgender person crosses the conventional boundaries of gender; in clothing; in presenting themselves; even as far as having multiple surgical procedures to be fully bodily reassigned in their preferred gender role.

In this report we will normally use the term 'trans people' to describe those people who might be described as falling broadly within this context, as it has become the term of normal use since the coining of it by Press for Change for their 1996 mission statement: "Seeking respect and equality for ALL trans people"[2]. People who identify as transsexual are a small part of this spectrum and may or may not have had medical treatment to alter their physical appearance"

Stonewall did not begin advocating for those who identify as 'transgender' until 2014/15. Many members of the Trans Advisory Group who have been so influential in shaping Stonewall policies will likely have been involved with campaign groups such as Press For Change, GIRES, Beaumont Society etc

Miranda Yardley November 2017 article
I first spoke with Stonewall’s Ruth Hunt just over three years ago when the organisation announced it would be engaging with the transgender community. This resulted in the forming of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group, you know that motley crew of transgender tyrants, including the self-styled (styled as if it were 1973) answer for any heterosexual woman who wishes to bring out her ‘inner lesbian’, Alex ‘Beardy’ Drummond. cheeky wink
mirandayardley.com/en/ma-vie-en-rose-ruth-hunts-rose-tinted-transgoggles-and-the-anti-woman-politics-of-stonewall/

GCAcademic · 07/08/2021 14:13

Perhaps instead of "scroll on by", we need to remember "don't squeeze that spot"?

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 14:10
Grin
Helleofabore · 07/08/2021 13:56

Envy. Not envy

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 13:55

Yes, it's a sort of social acne isn't it? Bless

Yes. I can't resist the urge to squeeze though. A different version of sporners corner.

Helleofabore · 07/08/2021 13:53

Oh I see. It is the wrong sort of feminist forum hence why it is not considered a proper feminist forum and therefore terms like 'handbagging' as deemed as appropriate to use here.

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/08/2021 13:51

Oh dear @Whoarethewho are you part of the MRA movement? It sounds like. It. Sad really.

Chickenyhead · 07/08/2021 13:46

Yes, it's a sort of social acne isn't it? Bless

CardinalLolzy · 07/08/2021 13:45

We're quite good at scrolling on past obvious derails now, too.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/08/2021 13:45

Scratch the surface and an MRA pops out.

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 13:40

Gottalife it's a feminist forum dear.

Chickenyhead · 07/08/2021 13:38

Aaahhhhh thank you, both of you. Your comments mean so much to all women everywhere.

It's the reason we will never stop fighting.

Ninkanink · 07/08/2021 13:38

This is very much a feminist forum.

Gottalife · 07/08/2021 13:37

OP, this is not a feminist forum It's just a GC one.

Chickenyhead · 07/08/2021 13:36

Poor ickle pickle

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 13:33

Won't some think of the censored menz 😞 😭

Ninkanink · 07/08/2021 13:33

So absolutely ridiculous.

Artichokeleaves · 07/08/2021 13:31

Oh it's the 'women asked for it when they got out of their box and I'm glad they're getting the harm that uppity women deserve' one! Grin We haven't had that for ages!

Chickenyhead · 07/08/2021 13:27

But like your comments, it's just not that interesting or novel. You poor things. Life must be so hard. Look after yourselves.

Gottalife · 07/08/2021 13:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted as it quotes a deleted post.

Chickenyhead · 07/08/2021 13:24

@GCAcademic

Oh bless. Poor little man.
It must be difficult to be a man. Poor thing.
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