Would anyone care to reply to Laurie Penny?

I like these that got shared. Definitions of gender critical and gender identity.

Most of them. LP definitely.

Some will genuinly think it's about enforcing strict gender norms if they only read stuff from a lot of the people/groups pushing/ supporting the mainstream activist points around trans inclusion etc.

Lying.

Often on Twitter, generally speaking, the question that comes to mind is 'are they lying or thick?'

What a tiresome pile of doo that was.

I have commented, but it seems like a set up.

"I’m fascinated to know what sort of world ‘gender critical’ feminists would like to live in, ideally. What would gender identity look like? What would be acceptable ways for, say, someone assigned male at birth who did not want to be a man?"

I wouldn't be arrogant enough to impose my gender atheism on anyone else so gender identity can "look" however it pleases as long as it leaves me alone.

I imagine it's very difficult not wanting to be a man if you are born male but it isn't feminists preventing the individual resolving that difficulty, biology plays a, not insignificant, part in that and unfortunately I don't have the power to sway science.

Remind me again what the hell this has to do with women?

some of the replies, sheesh

Does that mean you're okay with, for example, male-sexed people having "woman" as a gender?

fuck me, of course not you twerp. In a world where there were no sexist stereotypes what would that even mean

god, some people are so fucking sexist they can't even function properly innit?

I sometimes wonder if LP can possibly be as stupid as she appears to be.

What would be acceptable ways for, say, someone assigned male at birth who did not want to be a man

Why on earth does she think it's a woman's problem to solve. If a man doesn't want to present as a man then don't. As long as born males stay out of womens sex segregated spaces for women, be it toilets, showers, prisons, sport, short lists, women's wards; then I don't care how they decide to present themselves. Not my problem.

There was a thread recently where the reason it's not being done that way is because it's pretty much impossible and unlikely to ever happen.

On a feminist board with women who try to do just that, and the history of women around the world who have fought and fought.

Oh and made gains- voting, property rights, not being property themselves (not globally yet but the fight continues).

Nope CBA. This way is easier.

Men are used to getting their own way though aren't they. And having others run around in cut circles to get them what they want. (Group level etc).

'*ways for someone who did not want to be a man to live and identify?'

Hmm.

Work with other men to break down the rigid masculine norms that much of society seeks to impose? And the sometimes violent enforcement of those norms by other men?

I think LP is just looking for attention to their Twitter.

I don't for one minute believe they don't know what it means.

Also lol at oh no this is rubbish because most things are made with default male in mind.

Transparent.

Sorry I was confused about which board I was on. I'm afraid you'll have to visit the naughty corner for the hot tub info - it's on one of the Wi Spa threads.

Eh apologies for the autocorrect. It should say Stanisland

There’s a thread about it on the other board. Called something about the Stanislavsky question if I remember

Eh?
Naked man?
Hot tub?
When?

Given Penny's initial response on Twitter to reports of a naked man getting into a hot tub with a child - not even 'It's a lie' but that the child shouldn't have been looking - I don't think there's any way back for her.

Surely Gender Critical actually means, 'critical of the concept of gender '?
So in a GC world there would not be gender identities or gender roles, just people with a recognised biological sex and personalities?

It's so tiring isn't it? Especially as you know you can explain until you are blue in the face and they'll just keep on going, "gee those GC feminists really do support conservative gender stereotypes!"

I feel like we're in an asylum saying we're really not mad, and they're just replying to say that this proves we're mad, only a mad person would say that. We can't win.

Some excellent replies on that thread. Pity they won't make the slightest bit of difference to Laurie, but maybe some will take notice.

I’m not saying that being a tiny white woman doesn’t come with other, unearned social privileges, but I’d trade a slice of them to be able to use furniture without hurting myself

Quite offensive, actually.

I'm laughing at Baroness Nicholson's reply:

"I’m fascinated to know what sort of world ‘gender critical’ feminists would like to live in, ideally. What would gender identity look like? What would be acceptable ways for, say, someone assigned male at birth who did not want to be a man?"

Complain to their parents as always

🤷‍♀️🤣

twitter.com/pennyred/status/1420248792754888705?s=21

Honestly she recently posted something about being furious she'd only just discovered that her back/neck pain were due to her desk height and the default male. Apparently totally ignorant of the workplace assessments that are commonly done so they can tick a box but they probably won't buy you a new desk or special chair not to mention unaware of the work of Caroline Criado-Perez. I think she likes to make a lot of noise but she doesn't do the research and doesn't know what she's talking about half the time.