Male abuser denied help because lover is non-gender, in the Times

There is so much specialist knowledge that good organisations specialise. They don't set up all inclusive services, and they don't mix victims and perps.

No one is discriminating against the victim. They don't identify as a woman, and so the training given to their violent partner wont be suitable for their case.

That is a very interesting input from DHAY In essence, they have decided that the thread is full of 'hate' and therefore all the posters need to be told how awful they are. However, had DHAY actually really read what was being said, then they would have realised that opinion was broadly in line with theirs.

DHAY stop coming from the belief that you have read on Twitter that this board is a horrible transphobic cesspit and actually read what is being said, the nuances behind the arguments may differ, but the outcome is the same.

How do we know the violent male in this scenario hasn’t forced : or coerced his female Partner into identifying as NB in order to evade prosecution???

I honestly don’t know what kind of precedence this could set re: women’s safety. The problem is that it would be one thing if they had this program, as well as a custody sentence. But they use this program INSTEAD of a custody sentence. So now it’s, “Say you’re non-binary and your abuser will go to jail” OR “Say you’re female and your abuser will not go to jail, and gets to do this program instead.” I know there are women on some of the Mumsnet boards who wouldn’t blink twice at saying they were a teakettle if it meant putting their abuser in prison, and especially keeping him away from shared children, versus this program that helps the male abuser “build trust with social workers,” perhaps making it more likely he’ll get access to his children? Scary stuff if the abuser is ready to turn on the charm for social workers already.

Sorry that last comment was a bit off thread, @mumsnet, if you would like it deleted let me know, don't want to derail anything.

When will this madness end. That's it really, I know it has to implode on itself one day. Just reading these comments, what have we done to society to teach people they have a gender identity and that biological sex means nothing - the insanity.

the problem is with a cis-gender, heterosexual system of which seems to be opposed to any other relationships that aren’t male/female.

I would imagine that the course is less about helping heterosexual couples and more about tackling male violence against women.

Unfortunately that is not something that respects any aspect of anyone’s identity. However the course may not be set up to deal with cases where the victim does not identify as female.

Your perspective that heterosexual couples are some how privileged because of the way this dynamic can operate in a relationship is rather disturbing.

Of course other kinds of violent dynamics also exist and funding should be available to help victims. However, funding is scarce and it’s not clear that a course like this is even effective.

'template of legal terms which should be more inclusive of other couples and genders. I believe that it would make sense for a law to assist in keeping people safe, regardless of gender'

Have you read the link in the OP?
I'm not sure what you're saying. Is this in general as well?

'The problem does not lie with which gender the couple identifies as, the problem is with a cis-gender, heterosexual system of which seems to be opposed to any other relationships that aren’t male/female. The comments on this section are utterly disgusting, have some respect for that person who is going through this'.

So your post was nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread?
Bit random then.
You urged us to have respect for the person who is going through this. That's about the rest of the thread right? Or is that s general comment as well.

When you say the person going through this. Can I check which person you mean and what thing they're going through? Sounds silly I know but want to double check. As we already got at cross purposes when I assumed you were talking about the situation the thread's about.

Cis is not an acceptable word on here. Read the posting guidelines.

I am not specifically targeting the Scottish government, I am broadly speaking about the cis-het template of legal terms which should be more inclusive of other couples and genders. I believe that it would make sense for a law to assist in keeping people safe, regardless of gender. I don’t believe I said that the Scottish government was homophobic.

'It’s not my job to educate you'

No. But it WOULD be a really good idea to explain your writing off Scottish govt etc as homophobic.

It's a massively strong thing to say.

30DHAY

The problem does not lie with which gender the couple identifies as, the problem is with a cis-gender, heterosexual system of which seems to be opposed to any other relationships that aren’t male/female'

This is a big think to claim of the Scottish government and legal system.

You seem to have decided they are homophobic and I think anti trans. Your post opens with that.

I think you really need to explain why you said that. There are plenty of Scottish posters on these boards and to read that the system there, which is presumably fairly representative of the society that elects it* - the people.

That essentially THEY at a population level are OPPOSED to any relationships that aren't male/ female.

I don't think you can post that without explanation and expect anyone to give your arguments too much credence unless you explain on what basis you have said that about Scotland.

*Obviously issues but if ok I'd rather not divert as I think it's incredibly important for OP to explain why they have stated Scotland is a homophobic country.

Oh dear.

You told me to educate myself, now you choose to be obtuse about it. Deary me.

You do whatever you want. But you cannot compel others to follow you. I'm happy for you to have a gender identity. I don't and I don't have to either.

I have a biological sex observed at birth and recorded on my birth certificate as a fact.

I would recommend that you read my comment again, but I think that you’re obviously incredibly closed minded and stuck in your opinions and I’m not going to change mine. After all, I can’t help who I am.

I can give you my qualifications if you like but what does that even matter? That says a lot about someone that cares about their ‘worth’ on paper. I really do not care for it.

I’m not religious either, but does that matter too??

As I said I can’t help who I am, I never chose my gender. Nobody does, in case you were wondering. It’s never been a new or ‘trendy’ thing, it’s been around for centuries and that is a factual statement. It’s part of history. It’s not my job to educate you. I’m just not the kind of person to spread hate because of someone’s gender, or discriminate against anyone for that matter, and I won’t apologise for that.

WTF woman without GRC legally a woman - nonbinary isn't recognised is law as far as I know. If it is they're going to have to recognise all the other personalities genders too won't they??

Anyone else wondering what parts of being female that abused woman was rejecting
I hope she gets the help & support she needs.

It means, I reject gender ideology entirely. I'm also not Christian, or Muslim. I don't follow GI dogma.

I don't need to concern myself with it.

I stick with science, in which I am educated to degree level. I'm comfortable with facts.

That woman is a woman.

I hope you respond on your pretty strong opinion on Scotland as I'm just. Why do you think that?

Are you SURE about that?

I'm very surprised tbh. I'd have said the opposite. I'd be interested to hear why you believe they are, not just neutral but actively opposed to non heterosexual couples.

2016

'Dugdale’s news now means four out of Scotland’s six party leaders (the Conservatives’ Ruth Davidson, Ukip’s David Coburn and the Greens’ Patrick Harvie) are lesbian, gay or bisexual, making Holyrood, as she put it in a recent newspaper column, “the gayest parliament in the world”. Last year, the Rainbow Europe Index identified Scotland as the best country in Europe when it came to legal protections for LGB people and, last week, the first minister of Scotland announced her intention to reform gender recognition law for trans people and those with nonbinary identities. '

No, you should educate yourself. Funny comment for someone who claims to be “gender critical” but not know a thing about gender…

Also- big question.

It says the woman and any children get parallel course. For women to 'break the cycle of abuse'. Got questions around that but anyway.

Is the woman given additional practical support to leave?! I mean with this they could well be still living together.

Course is 18 months. So any results will take ages. What happens if they are living together child at local school etc etc I mean is it cross your fingers he's got the message?

Going to look further.