Rebecca Quinn, Canadian soccer player, comes out as transgender.

I don’t object to a biological woman playing sport in a team for biological women.

I do object to the utter hypocrisy of gender ideologues who insist TWAW and TMAM and it’s only your gender identity that matters, having no problem with - in fact celebrating - someone who no longer identifies as a woman continuing to play on a team for women.

Either gender identity trumps all, or sex matters. But they’re having their cake and eating it with a cherry-identifying radish on top.

I agree.

The women's category was set up for female athletes on the basis of sex, because of the clearly observed performance differences between male and female bodies. As long as Quinn isn't taking any banned drugs then they should be in the female category because they are female.

Gender, gender identity, gender expression etc have no bearing on biology and are totally irrelevant to sports performance. Sex is the parameter that matters, which is why male people of any identity should be in the male category and female people of any identity should be in the female category.

If some people want to change (or add) categories based on gender then we need to apply that to all athletes, instead of having these ridiculous hybrid categories where some athletes are included based on sex only (with no declaration of gender identity needed), and others are included in the same category based on gender identity only, even when their sex is different to their competitors.

Quinn is competing in a category for biologically female people with other biologically female people. Quinn identifies as non-binary. We have no idea how the other females in the category identify because it's irrelevent, as is Quinn's identity. This is fair as they are all female and nobody is taking banned substances.

Hubbard, on the other hand, was competing in a category based on gender identity. So Hubbard is included based on a declaration of gender identity that none of the other athletes needed to make to be included. The other competitors sex is female. We have no idea if the rest of the competitors have the same gender identity as Hubbard. So is this a category for biologically female people - no. Is it a category for people of any sex but with the gender identity of 'woman' - no. This is unfair, illogical and makes a mockery of the idea of fair competition.

I don’t object to a biological woman playing sport in a team for biological women.

I do object to the utter hypocrisy of gender ideologues who insist TWAW and TMAM and it’s only your gender identity that matters, having no problem with - in fact celebrating - someone who no longer identifies as a woman continuing to play on a team for women.

Either gender identity trumps all, or sex matters. But they’re having their cake and eating it with a cherry-identifying radish on top.

It's a total non story, as if Tom Daley came out as a Jedi andwe had a story about "first Jedi to win human olympics" confused confused

We did have lots of stories about him knitting, which was supposed to be groundbreaking in someway - the first knitting diver to win a medal.

I read a BBC article about Quinn earlier and was so confused
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/58061475.amp

I don't know how someone can insist they aren't a woman but be happy to play for the women's team
I don't understand why they can't see "people like me" when they are basically an androgynous presenting female like many other female athletes (or women generally)
And I don't understand why this is so groundbreaking "first trans person to win a medal"

It's a total non story, as if Tom Daley came out as a Jedi andwe had a story about "first Jedi to win human olympics"

Quinn is a biological female who appears to have had surgery to remove their breasts, judging by a pic uploaded to Instagram. Apart from that, as far as I can see, the news is: biological female plays for women’s team in Olympics.

[quote AMCoffeePMWine]twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1423343649333682179[/quote]
Helen Joyce is, of course, astute on the obvious media difference.

“The 25-year-old remains eligible to compete in women's sport despite identifying as transgender because gender identity differs from a person's sex - their physical biology.” WE KNOW! WHY DON’T YOU SAY THAT WHEN MALES WANT TO COMPETE AS FEMALES!!

Quinn can play football in the women's team, what with having a female body. WE all know that.

The question for me is, what does the IOC believe and how do they make decisions? Is it based on bodies or on "gender identity"? It seems the answer is whichever gets the person into the female category.

How can it simultaneously be true that everyone in my screenshot can be placed in the women's category? I guess this is queer theory in action.

Quinn’s stance on how she describes herself is pure white noise to me. Non binary/shminary.

She is a biological woman, if she qualifies for the women’s team she should play for them.

Presumably Quinn identifies as transgender ('transitioning' from feminine I suppose) but knows their sex is still female.
It's ok, it's just more egocentric than saying 'gender stereotypes are rubbish for everyone, let's just do away with 'gender'.

I quite like it. Makes them the first transgender athlete to compete in the Olympics and first to win a medal. Makes laurel Hubbard just completely meaningless in the course of transhistory.

Yes... it shows sports can be 'inclusive' without being unfair to women.
Though of course people who are now TW have won medals in the olympics, in their correct sex class.

**

Meaningless pontificating has been done by men and women forever. Politicians, sports people, entertainers.

They can be Scientologists, Prolifers, Non-Binary, I don't care. I disagree with all their beliefs, but it's only when they attempt to change rules and laws to disadvantage others than I will feel the need to step up and draw a firm line.

Hubbard did. Quinn hasn't. I might think both their personal beliefs about themselves are ridiculous. But to date, only Hubbard pushed a woman out of her rightful place.

I don't believe Quinn should be allowed to rename the women's team, but to be fair, she hasn't tried to do so to the best of my knowledge.

Women generally don't. Which female person wants to be called a bleeder, for example?

But somehow the word woman is disappearing and is being replaced by other inclusive words, why would sport be the exception?

This. If Quinn doesn't want to be seen as a women, why be in the women's team?

I agree. I actually find Quinn more annoying than Hubbard. You (general you) are unlikely to have any time for Hubbard but it's more logical to me to say "I'm trans, I'm a trans woman, I'm taking oestrogen/ reducing my testosterone, whatever " than Quinn's illogical and meaningless pontificating.

Floral had it right. Nonbinary is like a religious or political belief. It has no bearing on anything. She's still a woman and it's quite right for her to compete on the women's team, which should be based on whether someone is a (biological) woman.

I don't believe Quinn should be allowed to rename the women's team, but to be fair, she hasn't tried to do so to the best of my knowledge.

If there were a significant number of NB athletes, perhaps if they wanted they could form a NB team. But why? It would be no more sensible than forming a Christian, Muslim, socialist or conservative team (such teams probably do exist, clubs and churches with their own teams perhaps, but surely at Olympic level part of the whole ideal is to be inclusive). Much better to just define the teams by sex!

It is sort of sad that Quinn feels the need to dissociate herself from womanhood but she has that right.

Both this story and the Hubbard story are being hailed as showing sports becoming inclusive, but they are at odds with one another unless you believe that really all ‘woman’ means is non-‘cis’-man. (I know that word is not liked on here but in this context it’s hard to describe well what I mean.)

We’re back to men and non-men.

This. If Quinn doesn't want to be seen as a women, why be in the women's team? How long before the women category changes names to be 'inclusive' and reflect their non women players? Just like gynaecology literature talks about cervix havers instead of women. But whereas a man is never going to need a hysterectomy, a man can identify as a non binary non man.

In another article Quinn was droning on about not seeing anyone like her- fgs she plays professional football. If she can't see anyone like her , her remedy might be a trip to Specsavers.

It would be good to get some clarity as to whether women’s sport think women’s sports are for people who are biologically female or for people who identify as female. Both this story and the Hubbard story are being hailed as showing sports becoming inclusive, but they are at odds with one another unless you believe that really all ‘woman’ means is non-‘cis’-man. (I know that word is not liked on here but in this context it’s hard to describe well what I mean.)

We’re back to men and non-men.

Quinn is biologically female therefore is in the correct category! All good.

🙄

So what does Trans mean then? What does Quinn mean by being trans, do words mean anything any more?

That could be a long discussion, but does it matter in this context? Quinn is just as entitled to voice an opinion as anyone else.

"I've lived as an openly trans person with the people I love most for many years, I did always wonder when I'd come out publicly," Rebecca Quinn said in an Instagram post

So what does Trans mean then? What does Quinn mean by being trans, do words mean anything any more?

BREAKING NEWS: Biological woman plays for women's sports team.

Obviously there are no issues with her playing for her team. The label itself seems daft though. I'm guessing the idea is "sometimes I wear trousers rather than skirts and I don't always wear nail polish or makeup"---which of course would make pretty much any of us non binary.