Trans prisoners in Ireland: update

Time was Prison Officers had a very powerful trade union. They need to stand up to the government over this crazy shit

Fucks sake, Ireland.
Sorry I can't think of anything more coherent to say, although it's still more coherent than that article.

International best practice, my arse!

I've somehting about this recently, maybe in Helen Joyce's book, I don't recall...

1. Sneak law change in quietly without people realising
2. Use said law change as something for other countries to aim for "no problems with this in e.g. Malta, you bogots"
3. (In other countries) attach Malta's law to your law under cover of something else that the public actually supports e.g. gay marriage b abortion etc.
4. Other countries with the Malta law can now be held up as extra evidence that this is A Good Thing
5. Hey presto you have created international best practice
6. Yet more countries follow suit

Nevermind the triffling matter of some pesky women getting locked up with men or female guards being forced to search males, twaw you bigots.

I absolutely despair

This person's childhood is extremely sad and im sorry he was made this way by his horrendously abusive father.
That being said, he's clearly an extreme danger to women and shouldn't be housed with or guarded by women given his history.

Why is a secure MH facility any better? There's nothing magic about a MH ward that makes it any less subject to these constraints than a women's prison.

I don't know exactly what facilities are available in Ireland, but in England secure wards are single sex. I assume in Ireland a trans person would be detained in the facility appropriate to their gender not their sex. So am extremely dangerous trans woman would still be detained with women.

That could easily end up in a similar way to the prison. If the patient was high risk that might be placed on enhanced observations with (multiple) staff members present at all times. If the patient objected to male staff, works they have to be female? What about if the patient is searched?

And secure MH facilities typically have a seclusion room (basically an empty cell that locks from the outside). It wouldn't be normal practice, but in a worst case scenario where other safe options have been removed, I can imagine a patient could end up spending a lot of time in seclusion.

related to this, I wonder what the latest is with the prison staff strike threats over this issue
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4053810-Strike-threats-at-Oberstown-after-female-detainee-moved-into-new-mixed-gender-unit

I would be concerned that if transferred to a MH facility their “gender” status would still be endangering women, and there might be even less publicity about it.

But yes, I agree with you; the public needs long term protection from this person. It’s nearly impossible to imagine a successful rehabilitation, and it certainly won’t occur in these circumstances.

That's on the government and the prison service though. And anyone else involved.

Understand your personal feelings.

I personally think the apparent solution of YAY women's prison locked up 23 hours a day.

Is shit.

It's happened because they want to be seen as progressive and understanding but locked up 23 hours a day is no life.

I mean FFS what are they thinking.

Bk is obviously extremely damaged. I mean I'll be frank. What used to be called criminally insane.

To put in s cell 23 hours a day to tick box saying we're trans friendly is shit.

If they cared about BKs rights they wouldn't lock them up 23 hours a day.

BK is obviously not a person who should be anywhere except a secure MH facility where sentences mean nothing (in my country) and you can and people often do stay there forever.

To let this person into the general population would be unconscionable. And here we have the prisons inspectorate pushing it.

That report shows they do not give s fuck about a range of essentials.

If there's a relaxation then that's on the prison service, govt, authorities.

The point I’m making that this report seems to be aimed at pressuring the prison service into relaxing their safety precautions, which would harm female prison officers and female prisoners.

I never said they weren’t deserving of help. Those are your words and your projection. “Deserving” is a meaningless concept. They should be given whatever help is appropriate for them.

I said I don’t care about them. My concern is for the women who have to live and work with this unstable and dangerous individual.

Do you know for sure one of them is BK?

If there's a relaxation then that's on the prison service, govt, authorities.

They know if it is BK they present a massive risk.

If they say yep into the general population that is on them.

BK is clearly very very disturbed. It's not right to lock up 23 hours s day. No matter what crime.

Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of the public.

BK will be released at end of term. If spent however long living like that. Well it won't have made them less incredibly dangerous will it.

They should be in a secure MH facility. No risk to women. Getting help. Different rules apply- not released until better even if that means never.

What's the Irish equivalent of Broadmoor. There is where they should be.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Everyone deserves to be treated humanely.

Their history as a child is extremely abusive. In care. Longer pieces were available before.

Why do you think this extremely disturbed individual is not deserving of help?

I can’t bring myself to be concerned about Barbie’s wellbeing tbh.

But I’m very concerned that this report could lead to a forced relaxation of the safety precautions around Barbie resulting in women in that prison having to live and work in fear, until inevitably one of them is attacked or killed. IIRC the other male in Limerick prison is also a dangerous sex offender.

Read that earlier while searching.

If the situation is that TW are placed in women's prisons then locked up 23 hours s day then. In what way do they think this is ok?

It's not ok.

Being seen to be on board with prison according to gender ID and in practice that means treatment like that is appalling.

They don't know what to do, do they.

Prisons have been put in this position. Apparently unanticipated 🙄.

And result is a shitshow all round.

IF bk is there. It is an appalling way to approach things.

They need to be in secure mental health facility.

Loads of stuff has been vanished. Could only find this.

'Kardashian is reportedly a deeply troubled individual who spent much of her childhood in care since the age of 10. Court documents say she was “born into a household of extreme depravity and domestic violence”, while her parents had a “sadomasochistic relationship”.'

For me it's a

No full stop to being in women's estate
No to being locked up 23 hours s day (if they are one of those in the article)

This person needs to be having decent psychiatric help in a secure environment.

IMO.

Having read about Bk at the time. They have had a horrific life. Incredibly disturbing.

BK is obviously a massive risk to women and girls and needs serious help.

If they are one of those locked up for 23 hours s day then that isn't right at all.

My opinion is their background, actions and tbh appearance all indicate needs massive help. They are young and totally fucked up.

Surely a MH facility for those who are dangerous would be best all round?

They are an extremely damaged, extremely violent individual.

For those who aren’t aware, one of those prisoners is this person, who very violently attempted to kill their female care worker while she was looking after them, and has expressed an indiscriminate desire to kill women.

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-teen-charged-with-making-death-threats-against-two-individuals/

But the important issue here is that woman prison officers don’t invalidate “Barbie’s” identity by having male backup present during a search.

It's an online form in Ireland

Do these people have full I've changed my gender certs or whatever one gets, or can they just announce I'm transgender and go to women's prison? I can't see why a prison guard can't just say they are also transgender if that's all it takes.

I've been googling like mad and I can find

No report on the verdict/ whether the case has been heard
Where BK is

One site has article removed

There is hard work going into hiding/ suppressing things like this.

My guess is BK is one of the prisoners in this report.

I can't find the outcome of Kardashian prosection.

Was remanded in custody in women's estate Limerick prison.

www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/580587/teenager-accused-of-making-threats-to-kill-remanded-in-continuing-custody-at-limerick-prison.html

They should not be locked up 23 hours s day that's horrendous.

They should be in the male estate and looked after the same as other vulnerable male prisoners.

Or- and if had surgery for chest implants/ full surgery. Then the risk may not be fully mitigated . In which case a separate facility / area would be in order.

The inspectorate are prioritising them over the women as usual.

There is never mention of
Other men who are vulnerable in the male estate
Trying to sort out the violence in the male estate (would take time but would help so many inmates)
Third space

The answer is always in with the women.

If either of these people are in for sex offences against women/ girls, or violence. Then putting them in with the women is unconscionable. Screams fuck them don't care.

Wasn't Kardashian in Limerick?

In NZ any male convicted of sexual or violent offences may not apply to be placed in a female jail. ROI same size, same outlook. Is that an example worth drawing to attention of your authorities?

Well, maybe not nobody, but if prison isn’t just about punishment then it’s hard to see how it can meet any other aims in one hour outside of a cell.