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Original poster

BY A FOUR-TO-ONE MARGIN, CANADIANS BELIEVE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES’ PARTICIPATION IN WOMEN’S SPORT IS “UNFAIR”: NEW MLI POLL

92 replies

TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 19:05

This leading Canadian think tank has reported today. I haven't read it as it's just been published, but thought I would share anyway. The opening para reads:

OTTAWA, ON (August 4, 2021): New polling conducted on behalf of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute reveals significant findings regarding Canadians’ views on gender identity and women’s sport. By wide margins, Canadians support traditional sex-based categories for competitive sport, and they believe that allowing transgender athletes who were born male but who identify as women to compete in women’s competitive events is “unfair.”

www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/gender-womens-sports-poll/

OP posts:
Original poster
TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 22:03

Looks like the discussion started at 9pm, the brilliant Dr Emma Hilton is currently speaking, and Coach Blade is also there.

As to the issue over the title of this thread: having read a bit more of the study, within its terms of reference, the poll used the word "transgender" to mean transwomen:

Respondents were asked: “Increasingly, athletes who were born male but who identify as female, referred to as transgender, are allowed to compete in women's events despite often having greater muscle, strength and speed from being born male. Is this fair to female athletes in your view?"

Sixty-two percent believe it is “unfair” compared to 15 percent for who think it’s “fair” – a ratio of roughly four-to-one against. Among Canadians with firm[3] views, 39.4 percent are opposed compared to 6.6 percent for it, or a six-to-one ratio.

Therefore, within the parameters and terminology of the polling questions, the title of the report is not incompatible with its opening paragraph or the wider report of the results. The term "transgender" in the report referred to one thing only - trans women.

No questions were asked about transmen in the poll that would support the assertion that Canadians believe transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

My own point of view is that it is utterly bizarre that anyone who rejects their female birth status should then demand to compete in sports designed to celebrate the achievements of women. If a transman truly believes they are a man, then surely it would be anathema for them to do so. And surely, crowning them as a female champion would be nothing short of transphobia by their own philosophy. Obviously, nobody doping up on T should be anywhere near sport.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 04/08/2021 21:40

@MotionActivatedDog

Pegasus my initial post was just to point out the inaccuracy in the title. Then there was a discussion about it. You can ignore what bores you.
The title isn't inaccurate. Here's a screenshot from the link in the OP.

Macdonald-Laurier Institute, a Canadian think tank, has published an article with the title: "By a four-to-one margin, Canadians believe transgender athletes’ participation in women’s sport is “unfair”: New MLI poll"

The title of this thread (about the article and the poll) is copied directly from the MLI website. Contact them if you think their title is 'incorrect'. Here's their email to make it easier for you. [email protected]

BY A FOUR-TO-ONE MARGIN, CANADIANS BELIEVE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES’ PARTICIPATION IN WOMEN’S SPORT IS “UNFAIR”: NEW MLI POLL
MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 21:38

No- trans men who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women's sports. There is a huge difference.

All women who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women’s sports. That’s not just a rule that applies to transmen.

Pegasus stop engaging with me then! Post what you want to discuss.

PegasusReturns · 04/08/2021 21:36

You can ignore what bores you

That would be so much easier if you hadn’t chosen to derail an interesting thread.

KimikosNightmare · 04/08/2021 21:35

@MotionActivatedDog

Your point being what exactly?

Confused Exactly what I stated- that any woman who took testosterone wouldn’t be welcome as they would have an unfair advantage. Not just transmen.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

I think you’ll find youre wrong. Transmen are women and perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

No- trans men who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women's sports. There is a huge difference.
MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 21:27

Pegasus my initial post was just to point out the inaccuracy in the title. Then there was a discussion about it. You can ignore what bores you.

MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 21:26

Your point being what exactly?

Confused Exactly what I stated- that any woman who took testosterone wouldn’t be welcome as they would have an unfair advantage. Not just transmen.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

I think you’ll find youre wrong. Transmen are women and perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

PegasusReturns · 04/08/2021 21:23

@MotionActivatedDog what are the point of your posts?

They’re neither informative or interesting.

KimikosNightmare · 04/08/2021 21:22

That would apply to any woman in woman’s sport though- not just transmen

Your point being what exactly?

You have pointlessly weighed in on the OP who correctly quoted the survey she was referring to.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 21:20

Why would trans men be "perfectly acceptable" in women's sports? If trans men are taking testosterone they will have an unfair advantage over women.

Transmen are as perfectly acceptable in women’s sport as other women are. Why wouldn’t they be? Being a transman does not automatically = being on T just like being a transwoman does not automatically = having breast implants. The rules on doping apply to all women in sport.

MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 21:17

@1Endeavour2

No, you're wrong. Transmen are not welcome in women's sports if they have taken testosterone as this would give a performance advantage. We need research on how long it takes for the hormone effect to wear off if women desist and it would be nice to welcome them back when the playing field is level. Girls who take testosterone from a very young age are an unknown quantity to me..
That would apply to any woman in woman’s sport though- not just transmen.
KimikosNightmare · 04/08/2021 21:16

@MotionActivatedDog

Your title is incorrect OP. It’s not transgender athletes in women’s sports being called unfair- transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports- it’s transwomen in women’s sports that are considered unfair.
Why would trans men be "perfectly acceptable" in women's sports? If trans men are taking testosterone they will have an unfair advantage over women.
1Endeavour2 · 04/08/2021 21:10

No, you're wrong. Transmen are not welcome in women's sports if they have taken testosterone as this would give a performance advantage.
We need research on how long it takes for the hormone effect to wear off if women desist and it would be nice to welcome them back when the playing field is level. Girls who take testosterone from a very young age are an unknown quantity to me..

WithLargeTableMouse · 04/08/2021 21:04

Blimey I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of Canadians here but they only polled 888 people. I can see the TRAs claiming that’s not enough people to make it a credible poll.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 04/08/2021 20:59

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at this. If policy makers ever consulted ordinary people - especially women - there would be no men self identifying as women in hospital wards, women's prisons, changing rooms, showers, dormitories, refuges, sports or anywhere where women gather for women only company. It wouldn't happen. There are no women anywhere in the world who seek to be undressed / vulnerable in front of unknown men - no matter how they present.

People recognise this for what it is - deliberate intrusion and erosion of women and girls privacy, safety and dignity.

I agree, but I have a strong suspicion this is exactly why they didn't consult women about this. They don't want to hear our concerns or complaints, because we don't really matter to them.

I hope this will be reported in Canadian mainstream media, but I'm doubtful. Because it doesn't fit the narrative of 'everything is fine, rainbows and sunshine blah blah'.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/08/2021 20:49

I know they have a fair amount of landmass but they're going to need an infeasibly large gulag (archipelago).

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 04/08/2021 20:38

that's quite cheering

what do we think are the chances of the canadian government paying attention?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/08/2021 20:31

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at this. If policy makers ever consulted ordinary people - especially women - there would be no men self identifying as women in hospital wards, women's prisons, changing rooms, showers, dormitories, refuges, sports or anywhere where women gather for women only company. It wouldn't happen.
There are no women anywhere in the world who seek to be undressed / vulnerable in front of unknown men - no matter how they present.

People recognise this for what it is - deliberate intrusion and erosion of women and girls privacy, safety and dignity.

SmokedDuck · 04/08/2021 20:12

In a lot of forums putting the title of the article you are posting in the heading is considered obligatory.

Deliriumoftheendless · 04/08/2021 20:10

Worst. Derail. Ever.

MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 20:06

Will you give it a rest ffs.

Hmm
MotionActivatedDog · 04/08/2021 20:06

I have addressed it. It’s done. I addressed it with you for the reason I have explained. Perhaps read before sharing in future. You’re responsible for what you post.

ScreamingMeMe · 04/08/2021 20:05

@MotionActivatedDog

Even in your OP it confirms they are talking about male transgender athletes and not all transgender athletes.
Will you give it a rest ffs.
Original poster
TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 20:03

@MotionActivatedDog

Even in your OP it confirms they are talking about male transgender athletes and not all transgender athletes.
Please therefore contact the MLI and tell them their title and their opening paragraph are not accurate in your opinion. One more (and one last) time: I have not read the report. I don't know if the stat in the title and the opening para summary refer to the same data garnered from the same question. I have posted for information only, not to endorse the accuracy of what is written, so stop addressing your problem with what they have written to me.
OP posts:
SmokedDuck · 04/08/2021 19:56

As a Canadian this doesn't surprise me. Most people, if they see what is actually being done, know that sports, prisons, etc are seriously wrong.

Very few know what's going on though. The mainstream media won't cover it.

In general the problem on the side of the public is that they are low key people, who tend to assume that others, including their leaders, are acting in good faith, and they tend not to stick their nose in the business of others.

Many would be deeply shocked to find out how the media has been copromises. Many people have a real trust in the CBC still, the same kind you see, or used to see, for the BBC, and maybe more so really as the CBC until quite recently was much more regionally embedded and locally oriented.

There is very little alternative media in Canada - there are for example only two national newspapers, and only a few real provincial ones with their own staff in each province, largely owned by the same groups. The population is just so much smaller and more spread out.