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Original poster

BY A FOUR-TO-ONE MARGIN, CANADIANS BELIEVE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES’ PARTICIPATION IN WOMEN’S SPORT IS “UNFAIR”: NEW MLI POLL

92 replies

TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 19:05

This leading Canadian think tank has reported today. I haven't read it as it's just been published, but thought I would share anyway. The opening para reads:

OTTAWA, ON (August 4, 2021): New polling conducted on behalf of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute reveals significant findings regarding Canadians’ views on gender identity and women’s sport. By wide margins, Canadians support traditional sex-based categories for competitive sport, and they believe that allowing transgender athletes who were born male but who identify as women to compete in women’s competitive events is “unfair.”

www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/gender-womens-sports-poll/

OP posts:
AlfonsoTheMango · 05/08/2021 11:51

I suggest scrolling past the attempts at derailing the conversation.

KimikosNightmare · 05/08/2021 11:48

@HermioneKipper

I’m conflicted about this. If you are a trans man then I’m not sure why you would want to compete in events that affirm achievements and success for women.

Interested in the arguments surrounding this issue though.

I would not be happy at all with trans men being permitted to compete in women's sports.

Make their minds up. If being a woman isn't good enough for trans men in life generally, then tough luck if that excludes them from female only sports.

Is this even a thing? Or just something "gender critical" posters on here are coming up with?

HermioneKipper · 05/08/2021 11:48

@KimikosNightmare My gut says that they are willing to put their contempt for women to one side if it means that they can secure medals and places from actual women.

As they’d have absolutely no chance of competing in a men’s event.

KimikosNightmare · 05/08/2021 11:44

@MotionActivatedDog

Ah right well. They clearly shouldn’t be competing in women’s sport if they identify as men and are taking hormones to affirm this.

Hormones, yes, should exclude them but I disagree with you that women who identify as men should be excluded from women’s sports based on their gender identity. Gender identity shouldn’t be a factor in qualifying for a place.

Why would any "woman" who has so much contempt for women that they can't bear being called a woman want to compete in women's sport?

Why should any "woman" who has so much contempt for women that they can't bear to be called a woman be allowed to compete in women's sport?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/08/2021 11:39

Transmen are all female ,so are welcome in female sports as long as they abide by the doping rules.

And there are no arguments that the use of T is essential to them so exemptions about levels should be made. Would anyone argue for a right to dope the levels to be consonant with those that are currently under scrutiny for DSD (although that's a very different consideration)?

HermioneKipper · 05/08/2021 11:35

I’m conflicted about this. If you are a trans man then I’m not sure why you would want to compete in events that affirm achievements and success for women.

Interested in the arguments surrounding this issue though.

MotionActivatedDog · 05/08/2021 11:30

Ah right well. They clearly shouldn’t be competing in women’s sport if they identify as men and are taking hormones to affirm this.

Hormones, yes, should exclude them but I disagree with you that women who identify as men should be excluded from women’s sports based on their gender identity. Gender identity shouldn’t be a factor in qualifying for a place.

MotionActivatedDog · 05/08/2021 11:27

@334bu

Any female person who wants to take part in female sport can do so as long as they are not taking performance enhancing drugs. Transmen are all female ,so are welcome in female sports as long as they abide by the doping rules.
This.
334bu · 05/08/2021 11:26

Any female person who wants to take part in female sport can do so as long as they are not taking performance enhancing drugs. Transmen are all female ,so are welcome in female sports as long as they abide by the doping rules.

HermioneKipper · 05/08/2021 11:20

@MotionActivatedDog

Except this wouldn’t help them compete in the men’s event. They didn’t go through male puberty either

But we’re talking about women’s sports.

Ah right well. They clearly shouldn’t be competing in women’s sport if they identify as men and are taking hormones to affirm this.
MotionActivatedDog · 05/08/2021 11:17

Except this wouldn’t help them compete in the men’s event. They didn’t go through male puberty either

But we’re talking about women’s sports.

HermioneKipper · 05/08/2021 11:16

Their bodies wouldn’t physically be able to compete on any level

HermioneKipper · 05/08/2021 11:16

@MotionActivatedDog

So if transmen are allowed to dope then any woman can identify as trans and dope too?
Except this wouldn’t help them compete in the men’s event. They didn’t go through male puberty either
MotionActivatedDog · 05/08/2021 11:08

So if transmen are allowed to dope then any woman can identify as trans and dope too?

Signalbox · 05/08/2021 11:06

This applies to all women in women’s sport. Not just transmen.

This is how it should be. But for women in general this would be called doping. For transmen it would be for gender affirming purposes. One is bad the other is stunning and brave. In some countries transmen on hormones are still allowed to compete in the women's category so it is not as straightforward as saying "this applies to all women".

MotionActivatedDog · 05/08/2021 10:54

@Signalbox

transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports

Unless they’ve taken testosterone.

This applies to all women in women’s sport. Not just transmen.
Signalbox · 05/08/2021 10:44

transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports

Unless they’ve taken testosterone.

EdgeOfACoin · 05/08/2021 09:10

The media in Canada just doesn't report anything that is inconvenient to the TRA narrative, from what I can see. I think if the average Canadian knew what was going on, they'd be pretty appalled.

It doesn't help that for the last four years Canada has spent the time trying to do the opposite of whatever the US does. ("Look at us! We're not like Trump's America!") It's similar to Scotland desperately trying to show how unlike England it is.

SmokedDuck · 05/08/2021 00:04

@Thelnebriati

Its not that I don't think sports are important, but prisons have been made mixed sex, Vancouver Rape Crisis and the Anchorage Hope women's shelter have both been under attack; none of them got this much support.
But they didn't ask about those things. I think you'd see similar figures for prisons nd probably shelters.

Most people aren't aware of them. Vancouver is 5000 km from the other end of the country, I doubt most people in eastern Canada could name more than once political figure in British Columbia, much less be aware of local issues about women's shelters there. I haven't talked to anyone, at all, who knows about the prison issue.

aliasundercover · 04/08/2021 23:31

A sample size of 888 people gives an error margin of about 4%:
www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/sample-size-surveys

4% is irrelevant to this poll. At the most extreme it would mean 76% think it's unfair to let transwomen into women's sport.

... and of course it's just as likely to mean 84% as 76%

Original poster
TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 23:02

Cheers. I'm glad it's provided another glimmer of hope in this clusterfuck of an era we find ourselves in. Having hitherto believed Canada is a complete lost cause, I hope the study does in fact reflect wider public opinion there, and makes people think of women's need for their own spaces beyond sport. Not being an expert on polling or from Canada, I am taking it at face value that it is generally good news for GC Canadians.

OP posts:
HermioneKipper · 04/08/2021 22:44

Sorry your thread’s been derailed by someone spoiling for a fight.

Good read. Glad to see not everyone’s fallen down the rabbit hole.

littlbrowndog · 04/08/2021 22:08

Cheers ted thanks for posting this

Good to see Canadians are astute

Original poster
TedImgoingmad · 04/08/2021 22:08

@WithLargeTableMouse

Blimey I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of Canadians here but they only polled 888 people. I can see the TRAs claiming that’s not enough people to make it a credible poll.
TRAs should be reminded that:
  1. The IOC rule change allowing TW who had not fully transitioned to compete in women's categories was based on a study of 14 people who were not even elite athletes;
  1. The oft quoted Stonewall study on suicidal feelings amongst transpeople was based on a poll of, IIRC, 28 people.
OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 04/08/2021 22:06

Its not that I don't think sports are important, but prisons have been made mixed sex, Vancouver Rape Crisis and the Anchorage Hope women's shelter have both been under attack; none of them got this much support.