Interesting experience with public toilets

Do you understand that women who have been subjected to male violence have higher incidence rates of PTSD than soldiers who've been in combat?

Do you understand that in the UK more than 33% of women have suffered domestic violence, at least 20% sexual assault and that the official statistics are underestimating the numbers on both, because the majority of these crimes are not reported, not even in victim surveys?

Do you understand the effect male violence has not only on the victims but also on the female members of their social circle? That's rarely researched in adults, but research on violence against girls in schools regularly asks them if they have witnessed someone being assaulted or if they know someone who has. And then it asks how safe they feel, how scared they are and that number is always far greater than the number of girls who were subjected to violence. By the time I was 14, every single girl I knew had been sexually assaulted. And I'm not talking about a bit of groping, let alone a hand on a knee. Pre-Covid I was regularly in rooms where every single hand went up to answer the question who had been subjected to male violence. Obviously a self-selecting group, obviously not representative but that suggests there are far more women and girls who may react with fear in that situation than you believe possible.

So, finally do you understand that the "average" woman, if she can be said to exist at all, may therefore be someone who does find it terrifying to encounter a male person in a place she expects to be female-only?

I think we should organise a day where we highlight women’s importance to the economy and encourage all women to refrain from spending anything for one day. It doesn’t have to be linked to any specific issue - but a way of saying we are here and we matter. I think it would send a small shockwave through the financial services.

But there seems to be a dearth of responsible adults at the moment, so we need a way of getting people to do the right thing.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I just feel so uncomfortable about rewarding organisations for keeping a crumb back of the safeguarding we have been afforded for years.
Yes I do take your point. I guess I'm basically being pragmatic.

It's only a matter of time. I won £2.80 last night, £66million is the obvious next step.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

Chickenyhead, I've long thought that when I win the EuroMillions, I'm going to set up a chain of exclusive Ladies toilets around the UK.

That & a few lesbian clubs, to help our lesbian sisters who've lost their places.

DH wants a submarine when I win. He can have that, I'll do the rest.

Sounds like a plan! If I win, I'm in.

👍🏆

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

I just feel so uncomfortable about rewarding organisations for keeping a crumb back of the safeguarding we have been afforded for years. It's ours, we need it. No one's going above and beyond if it isn't taken away, they just have to learn to say NO to the type of man who wants to enter a woman only space.

What should the trophies look like? Graphic for novelty value & to get publicity, or abstract & tasteful?

Sorry very insensitive X post there I was replying to IfIwere

Chickenyhead, I've long thought that when I win the EuroMillions, I'm going to set up a chain of exclusive Ladies toilets around the UK.

That & a few lesbian clubs, to help our lesbian sisters who've lost their places.

DH wants a submarine when I win. He can have that, I'll do the rest.

Yeah wish I could remember which thread it was on. Can anyone else remember seeing it?

Another advantage of a reward scheme is women can just instigate it ourselves and nominate organisations doing a good job. As you say, who turns down trophies?

Wow, indeed.

Well I don't think the wider public realise. I know that my friends don't.

Snuck in the back door like everything.

Is anyone doing the bingo card on this one?

Most transmen know how nervous biological women are and I've yet to meet one with male body language. Maybe I will and yes, I will need to deal with the automatic response.

The truth in reality though, is that I won't be using women's toilets. Ever.

So, just working out how to navigate the world, that's all.

And yes, NAMALT, I have a son, brothers, male friends. They aren't strangers and I I'm not automatically scared of them. Most men and transwomen are decent people. Some aren't.

There could be trophies, flags, an annual awards ceremony - they'd love it. And their employees would all be happy & productive. Win-win.

In every public toilet I've seen, if a male is going to be in the women's toilets for official reasons (cleaning, monitoring etc), there is a sign put on the door saying 'Male Cleaner present' or the toilet is entirely closed while it is cleaned.

The attendant is presumably in an office or booth of some kind in the vicinity of the toilet rather than actually inside where the cubicals are?

I have read some truly revolting accounts of them smearing cum about, even on the unused toilet roll. I don't ever want to contemplate mixed sex toilets becoming widespread. Some men's toilets have a bad enough reputation.

Or, as another commenter pointed out, can you be sure they weren't a trans man?

Why do you think that's more likely, when you think passing "trans men" would naturally use the men's? Oh I see, you didn't, it's just a silly gotcha.

Edinburgh Council are spending enormous amounts to make public toilets 'gender neutral'. mobile.twitter.com/nuffyknuckles/status/1389483673939062785

In terms of consulting or notifying people before the decision was made, one poster on that thread noted about a public consultation - 'It closed at end December 2020. The question was 'conveniently' conflated with another on extension of public internet access.'

All very Dentons, isn't it?

A man who goes into a woman’s bathroom is one I would automatically be wary of because they are already transgressing a boundary and disregarding women’s feelings.

YY. It's a red flag in and of itself.

I'm reluctant to use men's facilities as a protest because I think and men and boys are entitled to privacy too.

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

Interesting that you apparently weren't in the least bit bothered about there being a male attendant in there. Can you be sure the other male wasn't also a member of maintenance or cleaning staff?

Or, as another commenter pointed out, can you be sure they weren't a trans man? The natural consequence of insisting on people using the toilet of their birth sex would be trans men in the ladies, so maybe you'd better get used to seeing apparent men with beards coming out of cubicles.

This whole thread is odd honestly, and points out some obvious contradictions in the GC position on toilets. If a male sex offender wanted to access female toilets for nefarious purposes, surely it would be far easier for him to claim to be a male attendant or to claim to be a trans man than for him to claim to be a woman.