Interesting experience with public toilets

It's also going to get to the point where mens loos are safer, because men that wish to abuse women will be in the women's loo.

I know. It's beyond crazy.

It is discrimination. If a coachload of women arrives & they all hit the loos, a man who wanders up will be able to use the urinals which will be empty.

OTOH, if a coachload of men arrives & they all hit the loos, a woman who walks up will have to wait behind a long queue of men who will be using all six facilities.

If there were two female-only cubicles to match the two urinal facilities, the situation would be fairer.

I visited Arundel Castle the other week. Outside the entrance in a public car park there are public toilets. Self contained rooms opening out to the car park. There were approx 4 mixed sex, 2 men’s (urinals only) and 2 disabled toilets. So we are already there.
If the men had access to single-sex toilets but the women didn't, surely that's an open and shut case of discrimination, no? Would've been different if they were all mixed sex.

The men could use six, but lots will choose the urinals if they can, which takes them out of the lines for the other stalls, and urinal visits are typically quicker as well. So those men are no longer in the lines for the standard toilets.

If you had separate male and female single toilets though, at least some of the time some of them would be unused, while there was a line for the ones with the other designation - even though they are identical. Usually that means there are open mens stalls while women are waiting in line.

So it's a less efficient use of the stalls, with no increase in privacy. Often in that scenario the waiting women just use the empty mens anyway.

We're not talking about "in the proximity", this was apparently a man who had actually been in the women's toilets.

I'm not a sex offender. I would never assault someone, it's not something I'd be capable of. However, I realise that I cannot expect a stranger to know that, so I never let them be in a position to worry. Many women (such as some of those on this thread) have been the victim of sexual assaults far more serious than the minor groping I once experienced. I do not know what exactly you experienced but I would hazard a guess that it too does not come to the level of the multiple rapes some on this thread have experienced. Many of those victims of serious sexual assaults will be suffering from PTSD which can cause an apparently disproportionate reaction to situations you or I may consider trivial.

90% of the people I might walk past late at night in a city are not going to mug me. I'm still not going to take chances in case I come across the 10% though. My heart will still be racing if someone approaches.

The question we need to be asking is:

In whose interests is it for women to be forced back onto the leash of the bladder?

In OP's situation, I might have marched straight back into the Gents', saying something like,

" Sorry, guys, I'm temporarily identifying as male because there's a man currently in the Ladies' and I don't know why he's there. I know you're just here to pee and so am I and I feel safer peeing here with you."

I bet one or two of them might have gone to persuade the intruder colonist to desist.

If I were asked- the Arundel set up every time. I really dislike the traditional single-sex, stalls with partitions set up.

Councils etc should ask women what they want before making any changes*. Has that happened anywhere yet?

This 'unisex cubicles plus semi-open urinals next to a car park' thing seems to be the latest fashion. I've seen photos of it from elsewhere than Arundel - somewhere in London, I think.

• I know, it's a crazy idea

Sorry meant

In my own particular situation I have a condition which means I can legitimately use the adapted toilet but equally my needs are also served by the mixed sex, non adapted version. They are not served well by the traditional single sex cubicle set-up.

There are 4 self- contained toilets for both sexes; 2 self- contained toilets for both sexes those who need adapted toilets and 2 urinals which free up the availability of the first , or even , the second set.

In my own particular situation I have a condition which means I can legitimately use the adapted toilet but equally my needs are better served by the mixed sex, non adapted version. They are not served well by the traditional single sex cubicle set-up.

So no women’s only toilets? You are ok with the men having access to 6 toilets but women only 4!

That's what I thought in raising the scenario, if it can happen in daytime, it can happen anytime.

I didn't bring it up to be a trump, I found myself justifying my choice of words, which the PP took repeated swipes at.

I understand that there is now a gender inclusivity mark and for a long time there has been a disability tick mark, plus things like the charter mark. I wonder how one would go about introducing say a sex equality mark. Meeting x standards of equality, results in entitlement to display the relevant logo etc.

Chickeny 💐, so sorry to hear about your experience.

Wow, I have never heard anyone talk about rape as a “trump card” before. I think that is a new low.

As for hypothetical situations, isn’t that the fundamentals of all safeguarding?

I am glad that so many people are feeling the need to have a pile on. In reality I hold the same view that you all do that men shouldn’t be in women’s spaces.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

We don't hold the same view that it's ok to minimise women's experiences. And calling the experience of a woman being sexually assaulted a trump card is utterly disgusting. This is the whole reason why women need their own sex segregated space. Not for their experiences to be minimised by the likes of people like you

This whole thread is odd honestly, and points out some obvious contradictions in the GC position on toilets. If a male sex offender wanted to access female toilets for nefarious purposes, surely it would be far easier for him to claim to be a male attendant or to claim to be a trans man than for him to claim to be a woman.

The problem is not some hypothetical trans person. The problem is the classification of space, knowing it is female only, that males are excluded by law, and by convention and by tacit agreement, that it is a space where women can claim for ourselves, without fear or anxiety. That it is our space, where we can set our limits and males know that they are not allowed.

Stop bringing it back to trans people - women reclaiming female space, has really very little to do with trans people.

In most places the law doesn't require places with toilets that are like a home toilet - completely self-contained and opening up into a public area - to be sex specific.

I've even heard quite a few women complein about it when they are signed that way, for example in a gas station or cafe, because it means they can't go into an open male-designated toilet which is completely identical to the female-designated toilet. (Though many will anyway.) So I'm not convinced that most women object to this kind of arrangement, and in fact I think quite a few prefer it to stalls.

There is pretty widespread support for women's and mens toilets where there are stalls but I think it would be much less so if you start trying to say these other arrangements are now also included.

Women basically prefer single-sex toilets. Anything else is a step down.

I visited Arundel Castle the other week. Outside the entrance in a public car park there are public toilets. Self contained rooms opening out to the car park. There were approx 4 mixed sex, 2 men’s (urinals only) and 2 disabled toilets. So we are already there.

I don't think single self-contained units onto a parking lot are really mixed sex, unless you are putting more than one person in at a time. By that logic the disabled ones are also mixed sex. I can barely get my backpack into one of the normal ones with me so it would require some determination to fit two people. There is no risk to women's safety or privacy in that scenario.

I don't find older transmen all that easy to identify in many cases, if they are on the taller side especially. So I'd be inclined to say it was one possibility, along with someone entering mistakenly and going ahead without realising thy were in the wrong toilet, which also happens from time to time.

Love this idea. I wouldn't go for a day though...I'd go for a week. Women down cards and buy NOTHING. Fathers, husbands etc. use their own cards. Kids can survive for a week on what's in the bloody freezer.

I count myself as quite tough. Not a lot scares me and I have no qualms about travelling alone or walking alone in remote places. But if I encountered a man in a quiet women's toilet my spidey senses would tingle and I would be very alert to his movements because it's not normal behaviour.