Interesting experience with public toilets

Hollie McNish does a lot of thought provoking poetry on the subject of women.

[quote ArabellaScott]And who breast feeds in a public toilet?

And who breast feeds in a public toilet?

Plenty of women do. Including myself when my children were of that age.

Whilst I agree with the point about separate toilets etc I never fail to be amazed at the ridiculous level of man bashing which pops up under just about any subject on MN, for example the implications that any male in the proximity of a female toilet must be an abuser or rapist etc, get real the majority of men do not abuse, assault or rape girls or women and if anyone reading this has experienced this I'm sorry but that is still not a good enough reason for what appears to be anti male hate, I was as a young man sexually assaulted by an older woman, it does not mean that I judge all women in that light.

Please don't speak over women. Our experience of male violence is not the same as your experience as a man. Most women have /or will experience violence / sexual harrassment / sexual assault from a male perpetrator at some point in their lives.

And your attempt, as a male, to minimise womens experience of male violence and sexual assault towards is not welcome or appreciated.

Seriously @korawick12345 of course it can. The main areas of an airport, or a shopping centre or even a local doctor's surgery are probably covered by CCTV and you're unlikely to ever be completely alone. At night there could an hour or more before someone else came in. and no cctv. no attendant. People do get raped in toilets. They don't get raped right in the middle of a concourse. That's why it is frightening at night and not in the middle of the day - lonely, unfrequented closed space.

It is also the case that men are perfectly at liberty to be on the concourse - that fact that one is in the ladies already suggests that this is someone for whom, at the very least, women's boundaries do not matter. Ok they may well not be a rapist but they might still give you verbal hassle that you struggle to deal with (half asleep in the middle of the night) and the fear that comes with that, when you don't know when your persecutor will stop. Where is their line, the one they won't cross? You just don't know.

So if you're not frightened you're quite frankly an idiot because you're pretending to know something that you cannot - so don't preentend you're all knowing and different from the rest of us. You're not. You don't know if the man is a threat (most men are not a threat but most men do not go into women's spaces) and you don't know how the next minutes are going to play out. And you're in a confined, unmonitored, lonely space. And you may be 14, or 83 and rapists are not fussy.

An analogy. A relative is a postman. He puts his hand into letter boxes. A confined space. Most dogs do not bite him. He has never been bitten in 15 years but he has had some close moments. He has seen many colleague with injured hands because postmen and women get bitten often. He says his heart starts going if he approaches a door with a dog behind it. He has never been bitten. He has no fear of dogs in other circumstances (he does not have 'issues' in other words). But this one, with owners out at work and the confined space - well he is frightened. This is because he knows it is a risk, that dogs are risk, that the confined space and the lack of supervision are a risk. He'd be an idiot not to have heightened awareness, not to be aware of the risk, not to be a bit scared at the least.

And the dog does not chose to be left alone at home. The man is choosing to cross women's boundaries and be in their loos.

“Who breastfeed in a public toilet?”

I have expressed milk in an airport toilet. I had to travel (day trip) for work whilst still nursing. I found no other space and would probably have got mastitis if I hadn’t been able to express. It was beyond painful.

[quote ArabellaScott]And who breast feeds in a public toilet?

Queues for the Ladies' loo are always longer because men can stand to pee. It takes a mammal approximately 21 seconds to empty its full bladder. Women take more time freeing up the urethra, wiping, and rearranging clothing. It's anatomy.

DD, a teacher, travels with a she-wee funnel to speed things up. If I had one, I'd happily stand alongside men at a urinal if there was a long queue for the Ladies'. It's time, I think.

As for challenging a man in the Ladies', I would currently be confident to ask if he's lost his way and challenge if he seemed to be lurking. But the way things are going, if organisations make it a free for all, we won't have the option to ask or challenge any more!

'mare - RTFT where it's explained. It's also simple maths: 6 toilets of which two are men only while none is women only is discriminatory. More provision for the sex which has less need of that provision is privilege. Maybe you're too used to it to see it.

Anybody know where this type of design originated? The combo seems to be a recent thing.

Maybe the 'toilets' is a bit of a misdirection. It's not so much that women require toilets, we require private spaces. For so many reasons. Toilets are just a handy coincidence.

It occurs to me the 'we just want to pee' is so staggeringly crass partly because women need and want to do much more than 'just pee' in toilets. Clearly the people who use that line have no experience of the various bodily processes that exclusively female bodies experience that require extra privacy, space and often time to deal with. Maybe this is why it's seen as 'no big deal' for males - they really do just use toilets (or bushes, or roadsides, or lampposts) to pee, while women have periods, miscarriages, breastfeeding, expressing, menopause, higher rates of incontinence, etc, to deal with for much of their adult lives.

And here's a survey - apols for Guardian link.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/21/third-of-breastfeeding-mothers-forced-to-use-toilet-to-express-milk-at-work

'One in three breastfeeding mothers have been forced to use a toilet to express milk after they return to work, according to a survey.'

Great YouTube clip. Thanks for post Arabella

And who breast feeds in a public toilet?

"is"

Fewer toilets for women are doubly discriminatory as men use toilets less than women.

@KimikosNightmare no I’m not being ridiculous. This is not a standalone situation. And many many many women have breastfed in public toilets, not feeling confident enough to do it in public and/or being in places that lacked specific breastfeeding facilities- I don’t believe that very obvious basic fact has eluded you all these years.
There are no circumstances where it’s acceptable for men to have greater access to toilets than women, ever.

And who breast feeds in a public toilet?

it is so very obviously discriminatory to offer more access to facilities for one sex than the other, that can’t believe those questioning it are being serious. We make up 50% of the population, we should have access to at least 50% of any and all available loos, actually more, because we have typically periods, pregnancy, baby changing, and even breastfeeding etc to contend with in there. Lucky us that the presence of extra urinals free up a few loos up for us, you know what else would free up more loos for us? More loos.
FFS.

Can I just say, apropos to the earlier disputation and minimizing of women's responses to being alone with men - it is useful to remember that the debate around single sex spaces on FWR comes from a specifically Feminist perspective, not a more broad 'GC' one.

You may well support single sex spaces. There are all sorts of reasons for doing so, and I am pragmatic enough to work alongside those I will disagree with on other issues to make sure women's rights and protections are retained and strengthened.

But if you minimize the reasons why a woman would need and want a single sex space, you don't get the argument here, so while I'll be quite happy for you to lobby whomever is necessary to keep single sex provision, if you come to a feminist space and show callous disregard for why women want and need our spaces, be prepared to meet with a response that will disregard your support for single sex spaces. Because you don't get it at all, which actually makes you a bit of a liability because I'd fully expect you to compromise on the important stuff if you were pushed.

I'd like to think I would challenge a man in the women's loos. But in reality I don't know if I would think quickly enough, or feel safe to challenge someone who is obviously up for a confrontation, or feel too embarrassed or humiliated. And so they get away with it.