Bridging the generation gap

It's easier to prioritise feelings over facts when younger. I'm more baffled by the older people who should know better!

@Chickenyhead "However, I suspect a significant proportion of a certain aged man, would prefer to see women back in their place." Yes. To an extent the shift to white-collar and robot work levelled the playing field in employment for a while, and males lost their physical power USP. Men were working side by side with women in offices as equals, and the groping and sexist remarks to belittle women is no longer tolerated. Taking away single sex toilets in offices and other workplaces, universities, etc., making women have to share with men who even leave the doors open, feels like a male pushback that they can do under the guise of progressive 'inclusivity'.

My concern isn't so much for this generation as for the one coming after, by which time statistics and media reports about crime, male violence, women's sport etc might be so mangled that there will be little or no useful evidence left.
And yes I know it's already happening but at least, to give a topical example, it was widely reported that Hubbard is transgender, but by the next Olympics it might not be.

I have found that they are unwilling to consider that there may be a different point of view.

I liken them to anti-vaxers, flat earthers and conspiracy theorists. They are so set on their science interpretation, that there is no space for reality.

The worrying thing is that this particular group of extremists has so much control over the powers that be. However, I suspect a significant proportion of a certain aged man, would prefer to see women back in their place.

I am not so optimistic for this to go in my lifetime unfortunately.

Self ID was totally different, it was introduced legally in many countries before the public even realised it. Unfortunately, much of the groundwork has already been done behind closed doors. Very sinister.

In years to come, when the next trend comes along and these young people have forgotten what they spouted on twitter, these laws could still be in place.

I know in my heart that this trend won't last, and sanity will prevail eventually - but what kind of damage will be done in the mean time?

Trans people are some of the most oppressed people, so I think anyone adding to that, I find it really intolerable.

This simply demonstrates how gullible a lot of people are. Repeat the mantra "trans people are oppressed/murdered at an exceptionally high rate/more likely to kill themselves" over and over again and some people will believe it. We know from experience that a large proportion of people don't check facts for themselves. I saw or heard something the other day about older people being susceptible to myths about vaccinations they come across on the internet, and they quoted young people saying that older people are less sophisticated about spotting lies on social media. It's bollocks. Young people are just as bad, and probably worse.

I went to a very right on university in my 40's. A great many students were like these commenters - desperate to be kind but not understanding the arguments.

The ones who became my friends were the ones who thought it was all nonsense.

Of course there are also many female sex workers who have also been murdered, and in general they have one of the highest rates of femicide in the world. This doesn't seem to register.

So I dunno, it's good propaganda really.

So far, so normal, but the difference this time is that the the 'grown ups in the room' i.e. governments, media, medical establishment have all gotten on board with this (mostly due to lobby groups with their own agenda).

This is the problem isn't it- governments and large institutions are very on board with it, it legitimises it all.

I'm not Gen Z but am bang in the middle of the millennial generation. I'm 33. I mean I do think that the world in the early 00s when I was a teenager was more sane!

I'm a feminist, I consider myself a radical feminist. All of my older friends in their 40s/50s hold the same opinions as me.

I daren't speak to my younger friends in their 20s about this stuff.

I agree, so much of this is being ardently pushed by younger well-meaning people who just have no life experience, and to them this is the most heinous of crimes - being mean to an 'oppressed minority'.

I'm not sure how to get them to see reality without sounding patronising, as I remember being a teenager and if my parents disagreed with something I almost wanted to dig in my heels just to piss them off.

There is also the fact that they now have social media as a platform, and it makes them feel powerful, that they have a voice. You can genuinely feel that some of them think they are the ones going to change the world, using only their twitter account . And having that feeling of fighting an enemy (women who disagree) galvanises them. They belong to something important, they feel powerful.

So far, so normal, but the difference this time is that the the 'grown ups in the room' i.e. governments, media, medical establishment have all gotten on board with this (mostly due to lobby groups with their own agenda).

I do think in 10-15 years many of these young people they will look back and cringe a bit at what they peddled,(a bit like I look back at some of the stupid shit I said as a teenager), but in the mean time we just need to stay calm, stay focused and not give up. There is too much at stake.

Maybe we need to just focus on lobbying MPs, and leave twitter to devour itself. Those in government well know that older people are more likely to vote and will be more easily swayed by that. Although right now most of them are a disaster.

I wonder what has given them the idea that trans people are one of the most oppressed people. Possibly the constant repeating of this phrase has helped?
Disabled people are massively discriminated against but I rarely hear this said (I am not disabled myself)

They're young, still children. They're like Frodo at the start of Lord of the Rings, living a gentle, cosseted life with little experience or understanding of the rocky, often dangerous terrain of the adult world and the ways it will impact on and change them.

Like the majority on here it saddens me to see so many young people, especially young women, being taught to prioritise men's feelings over women's and girls' safety. I think it's very difficult to get the truth across to younger people when they are in the 'We know everything, despite having virtually no life experience' phase. I really fear for my (planned, but as yet unborn) grandchildren's future if this horribly misogynist time in human history continues unabated or even, God help us, worsens 🥺

Agree Floisme. They are not putting forward a case apart from how very terrible it is to deny what someone feels about themselves. To most people, there are more terrible things. We have better arguments. Keep making them.

Posted too soon! By 'stuck to our guns' I mean resist any temptation to curry favour by changing the message - it never works anyway.

you cant call people who disagree with you stupid - even if that is what you think, amirite?

Keep talking.
Be patient.
Stick to our guns.

Wait until they grow up and have life experience and/or children.

I was always pretty feminist but my eyes really widened when I became a mother (although it may just be cos I hit my mid-30s and had had enough of the BS).

I'm sure it can't be pleasant feeling like you've been born in the wrong body. That doesn't mean you get to try on bras in a curtained cubicle next to me, when I'm getting advice on the best bra for one boob after my mastectomy. That doesn't mean you get to use women's changing rooms at the gym/pool in front of my 12yo DD. That doesn't mean you get to share the women's ward of a hospital, especially if you're a sex offender* That doesn't mean you get to represent my country in the women's team at the Olympics, therefore shoving a woman off the bench.

It's more than trans' 'feelings', what they want to wear, who they want to fuck, what pronouns they want to use. It's the mysogynistic breaking of our boundaries.

• And we know which ones they are cos they wear bells around their necks.