Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

Bexxe Have you read the articles by Anne Harper-Wright? The majority of medical staff in NHS are unaware of the political background and implications of conflating sex and gender identity:

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-bb86b0c3ebb

[quote Rosesareredd]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - I agree that if women don’t feel comfortable being on a mixed ward they should have a choice to be moved, however, as I’m comfortable with it, it wouldn’t be a problem for me.[/quote]
The women shouldn't be put in that position, when at their most vulnerable. Particularly when hospitals are saying that daring to complain could result in removal of essential medical treatment and reporting to the police for hate crimes!

You're willingness to share with anatomical males results in the rest of us being labelled bigots and criminalised for wanting simple safe guarding principles to be followed.

Penises don't belong on female wards any more than they belong in female prisons. For the safety of women.

If additional safe guarding and protection is required to protect trans women from men then that should be done, but not by transferring exactly the same risk to women instead.

not only this - but each person will have their specific reason as to why they are uncomfrtable. For example, a Trans patient (say from male to female in this example) could have a background of abuse and have the same fear of men as some female born women. Where do we place this patient?
In the female ward with people who are uncomfrtable with her, or int he male ward where she will also feel at risk?

Mixed wards have been around for years and in my experience are kept pretty separate. Ive spent many a time on a mixed hospital ward and have never shared an actual bay with men.
To me they make sense when money and space is limited.

[quote R0wantrees]To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

Except these are not 'mixed sex breaches' but 'mixed gender identity breaches'. A male patient whose NHS record states 'female gender' would not be recorded as a breach if placed on a female single sex ward.

see previous linked document, medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6[/quote]
I can see the poit your making, i think just from all perspectives its really not as simple as that.
Majority of NHS trusts are majorly under funded, lacking in estate space and lacking in workforce. To keep every at peace, it would essentially mean creating ( which money and space dont allow in most cases) a seperate gender identified ward. They would then need to find the workforce to staff that ward, and have multile of them to capture each speciality.

I dont doubt anyones reasonings on here for being uncomfortable with the situation, i simply just wanted to offer a small insight into the logistcal factors that end in mixed breaches - its not through lack of insight or lack of understanding. The hospitals simply just are not equipped to avoid this issue

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - I agree that if women don’t feel comfortable being on a mixed ward they should have a choice to be moved, however, as I’m comfortable with it, it wouldn’t be a problem for me.

To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

Except these are not 'mixed sex breaches' but 'mixed gender identity breaches'. A male patient whose NHS record states 'female gender' would not be recorded as a breach if placed on a female single sex ward.

see previous linked document, medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

As an ex hospital worker i think i can weigh in here.

To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

With the pressures in the hospitals at the moment, clinical need has to prevail over mixed wards. If there is a patient coming in through A&E that needs respiratory care, and the only bed left is on a male ward - they clinically have to put the patient on that ward no matter the sex. The alternative is to have a patient who needs specialist care in a non-specialist ward which can end in fatality.
Hospitals do work hard to make sure people are placed in same sex wards, but the clinical need of the patient must come first to ensure they are given the best care

Why is this thread in the naughty corner? It's of interest to all women, not just feminists. MN need to get a grip.

Has this thread been moved? I thought it was in Feminist chat..

I wasn’t aware of how badly the NHS was failing people.

I think many people are reluctant to criticise the NHS because so many of the staff are so overworked and the save lives. The NHS is one of the best things Britain has ever done.
Clearly decades of cuts and chipping away at services with an eye to privatisation has screwed everyone.

I don’t know where to even begin fixing it.

Wards should be sex segregated. Overwhelmingly it’s what the public want, isn’t it?

Maybe a general thread in the Good Feminists section or AIBU would alert more women to the problems of poor care, abuse and neglect? There’s clearly a lot of feminist issues that don’t need to be derailed by “you are all hate filled bigots!” need to be talked about.

Ok @Rosesareredd- so what is your actual opinion then? Do you think that just because some women don't mind, that all women should have to share hospital bays with biological males?

Andy detracts from the arguments about where transgender people should be accommodated.

I’d love to see your evidence base that most healthcare professionals don’t seek consent and SI investigations blame patients. Stop simply not true.

@user16395699 (Yes I have experience of mixed wards, both when I was 18 and older!)

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind (No one is giving your rights away, I simply stated I was happy to be on a mixed ward, I am speaking for myself, not for all, free speech and all!)

*You say all this like better care is something we shouldn't even expect, and how dare we even try.
Of course what you are outlining is shocking and horrible, but we shouldn't just roll over and not give a shit, or not talk about ways to make it better. Talk about a race to the bottom.

Don't even bother wanting better folks, nothing to see here!*

This, completely.

Don't even bother wanting better folks, nothing to see here!

The next bloody thing will be elderly women in care homes expected to share a room with a bloke. Let's see how long that takes to happen.

As usual, I think many women are ok hypothetically sharing with a “sex change” person. Not so much with a person identifying as female but retaining full male genitalia and - in the case of some activists I’ve seen - a beard too. In other words, just “feeling” like a woman, maybe only for that particular day.

Having spent some weeks in hospital a while ago I feel that safety could have been a bit of a problem. On one occasion a male visitor came and sat on an empty bed in my ward/bay to make a long loud phone call. It was 3am or so and it was ages until a staff member came round and asked him to stand in the corridor instead. I wasn’t going to say anything!

I agree OP, its horrible. This is wrong on principle, we shouldn't be waiting for the worst to happen before acknowledging this.

I'm just going to leave this here for all those who will say that we are overreacting - www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/judge-criticises-hospital-after-girl-sexually-assaulted-by-man-63-on-ward-1.4170837

This really isn't actually just about trans people, this is about bad laws and bad policy that are not considering potential safeguarding issues. Any male who wants access to vulnerable women can easily get it, the doors are wide open, and anyone who questions that is shouted down as unreasonable and treated with contempt. Have we learned nothing from the various sex abuse scandals?

Also, surely trans people know that however they identify, their biology is unchanged and therefore if they have a medical issue it may be very relevant to their care to inform the hospital what their biological sex is.

So many posters on this site seem to have a view of the NHS based entirely in the realms of fantasy of some safe, caring, well-run institution that will keep them safe, treat them with humanity, and take responsibility if something goes wrong.

That is pure fantasy. That is not the NHS we have.

Mixed sex wards are standard. There is no safeguarding. Patient dignity is not considered. If a problem occurs they will not take responsibility. If there is a serious incident they will blame the patient and continue the same unsafe or harmful conduct. People are routinely neglected and verbally abused. Patients re not even treated as human. Consent is violated (I.e. patients are assaulted) on a routine basis for convenience. Coercion is rife.

Just look at the way Connor Sparrowhawk's family were treated, and how little has changed since.

The NHS killed their son and then fought tooth and nail to shirk responsibility and try to blame him and the family.

It was abhorrent.

Template letter here, if not already posted:

mobile.twitter.com/sleeepysandy/status/1422475320444268589