Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

But. We are not helpless. We have over 50% of the vote. And we have some fantastic champions. The article mentions Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne. She is shouldering many of these concerns and trying to get her voice heard in the House of Lords.

It's crazy that we even need to fight this dreadful take over of our most basic rights, but we do.

Write to the baroness. And your MP. Every voice is vital.

This ^^

It really is a huge issue. As is transwomen sex offenders in prisons (I think about 50% of transwomen in prisons are sex offenders).

I absolutely respect their right to live their lives with the same rights as everyone else

Male prisoners convicted of sexual offences are released from prison when they have served their sentence. NHS hospitals would not be aware of previous convictions of patients. Additionally, the majority of men who are perpetrators of sexual and/or violent offences against women are not successfully prosecuted.

How would hospital staff know somebody had a history of sexual offending?

@ryzen

It is awful, shocking and almost unbelievable. Not just the policy, but the rank misogyny behind it. Women are to be subjected to punitive measures to ensure compliance in their own, well oppression is the word. It's dystopian.

oppression
/əˈprɛʃ(ə)n/

noun
prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority.

And any woman who even witnesses it is also under threat.

That women are to be punished or have their treatment withheld if they object to being forced to sleep next to a rapist is inhumane and almost too horrifying to grasp.

But. We are not helpless. We have over 50% of the vote. And we have some fantastic champions. The article mentions Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne. She is shouldering many of these concerns and trying to get her voice heard in the House of Lords.

It's crazy that we even need to fight this dreadful take over of our most basic rights, but we do.

Write to the baroness. And your MP. Every voice is vital.

I'm so sorry for your experiences. And feel such rage on your behalf. Not diminished by the fact that even this female dominated forum hides women's concerns.

*OP, I am so sorry that you are upset. It really is a huge issue. As is transwomen sex offenders in prisons (I think about 50% of transwomen in prisons are sex offenders).

I absolutely respect their right to live their lives with the same rights as everyone else*

I respect trans women to have the same rights as everyone else - but certainly not sex offenders however they identify.
Male & female sex offenders have restricted rights because of their offenses and so should trans women.

Predatory males is exactly the reason that second wave feminists fought for single arc spaces in the 70’s. These fought for fundamental rights that so many have lived protected by for so long, are being removed as we speak.
The problem is that many of the younger generation do not even realise what’s going to happen and what is happening NOW as men invade our spaces.

Women deserve women only spaces and they should be protected.

Previous thread, OP Poppyred wrote, Thu 27-Sep-18

“Transwomen should be treated on female wards”
So says Olivia Butterwoth, leader of Patient and Public Voice team at NHS England.
This is a screenshot from the GG Twitter feed linked to on another thread. I noticed the conversation while reading through it.
I don’t know how influential her role is but I find it worrying that the leader of a group representing patients thinks this. I’ve spent enough time working on NHS wards to know how important single sex wards are to women going through gynaecology procedures, miscarriages and early pregnancy complications.
I also know how vulnerable I felt when I was one of those patients and how much I appreciated that the other patients around me were women.
Once again this is about not just safety, but the privacy and dignity of women and our right to sometimes have spaces free from males or male bodies"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3378258--Transwomen-should-be-treated-on-female-wards

Exactly. They didn't want a debate. Tough. We made it a debate and now a lot of organisations who thought women should be the ones to give up their rights are feeling the heat. Keep the pressure on them.

**They are being put on female wards because they say they are women. This includes sex offenders, by the way.

Trusts are telling staff to treat women who object to this as if they were racists and report them to the police for hate crime. In one case, they were told to deny women treatment if they object to being in bed next to a male sex offender**

This is disgusting. WTAF is happening at the minute…

Anyone who think it's acceptable for men to be in women's spaces is not a feminist.

Unfortunately many trans supporters will shout bigot, transphobia etc and do everything in their power to shut discussion down. I don’t think that is right, I think we need to keep having these discussions. The feelings of people born male cannot come above the safety of women.

It's not just our safety, because that will just be hand-waved away as a tiny statistical risk and prejudiced towards MTF trans people. Please also keep saying that women's feelings, our privacy, dignity, comfort in an environment where we feel safe are equally important to those of these male people too. Male feelings are being put above everything in this.

Safeguarding assumes that everyone is a risk to vulnerable person, be that a child or a vulnerable adult.
Simple because risky people don't announce themselves so you protect the vulnerable before all others.

So in youth groups safeguarding best practice would say that no adult is 121 with a child.
The simplest way of protecting women in a vulnerable state on a hospital ward is to not put men on the same ward.

I'm sorry, OP. It is horrifying and depressing.

Starting to hate this world its so messed up

@ryzen This is the problem we are facing. We cannot even have the discussion. I think that is wrong. I think there should be an open discussion around this and all issues taken into account.

Unfortunately many trans supporters will shout bigot, transphobia etc and do everything in their power to shut discussion down. I don’t think that is right, I think we need to keep having these discussions. The feelings of people born male cannot come above the safety of women.

I agree that women in general haven’t been consulted. I think that is why some people are trying to shut down the conversation. They realise that most women will be against this.

Lbc. Are discussing this now.

If a man can choose which sex he wants to share a ward with why can't a woman?

Male patient says: " I want to be on a women's ward". Staff:"ok".

Female patients says "I want to be on a women's ward:" Staff: "that is unacceptable, that's the same as being racist ".

Really?

I could have written your post OP. I too have been utterly traumatised by men most of my life. I now can't walk to the local shop for fear of certain smells, noises and men. If i was on a ward next to man while i was at my most vulnerable i would be beyond. Hugs OP.

Transgender people, male and female have each a history of sexual violence effected upon them

What is this supposed to mean? No they don't. Some do, like many women do.

Every single person should be being safeguarded.

I agree with the article that to assume criminal intent as a first point of risk is discriminatory. Transgender people, male and female have each a history of sexual violence effected upon them and so also have a right to access safe care settings at a time when they are most vulnerable.

Single sex hospital accomodation (wards, showers and toilets) were established for all patients safety, privacy and dignity. There is well established recognition and evidence that male patients (as a class) represent specific potential risks to female patients. There is no evidence that male patients who identify as 'transgender' have a different risk profile of potential sexual offending than male patients who do not identify as 'transgender'.
Safeguarding is discriminatory, it identifies specific risks to a vulnerable group and then takes appropriate steps to mitigate that risk. Interventions are applied to all within the potential risk group in recognition that it is impossible to identify individuals eg all teachers have DBS checks and follow Child Protection/ Safeguarding policies.

2016 Tara Hewitt training session for HCPs, 'Trans People and Cancer Session'

(transcript extract)
"When we're talking about trans issues sometimes people think we're talking about a very small number of people and actually that's a big number of people"
Hewitt estimated there were 600,000 'trans people' in the UK and is clear that within this group are cross dressing "men wearing women's underwear and women's clothing ... to get a sexual desire out of that clothing" (04:00 onwards)

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385533-Prominant-campaigning-role-of-Tara-Hewitt-NHS-TELI-Social-work-universities-etc

It would be awful to be a female in the same situation.

I quite agree. Which is why males shouldn't be on female wards. The public don't support mixed wards. Successive governments have pledged to get rid of them.