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Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

410 replies

Nefelibata33 · 01/08/2021 01:21

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

OP posts:
Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 15:16

I've worked all of my life. I am THE wage earner.

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 15:15

Can one of you kind women explain to me what these two quite aggressive men are doing on a woman's forum other than dick waving?

Because this is just an absolutely shameful example of male privilege.

The OP clearly has issues if they feel bullied by the truth and have provided no evidence to support their wild nonsense.

And we have a man talking about the pre WW2 years, who doesn't seem to realise what jobs women do. Like cleaning abattoir clothing, (done that), sorting dirty laundry off of cruise ship, filled with turd (done that) and many, many other dirty jobs. Whilst bringing up a family and wiping their husbands arse.

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 15:14

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CandyLeBonBon · 01/08/2021 15:14

@SourAppleChew

The patriarchy is as damaging for men as it is for women. It's not an either or situation. Both sexes are negatively affected.

I agree.

I guess there are varying degrees in how far you believe men are privileged. I always roll my eyes a bit when some women make out that men breeze through life. The only people I've seen breeze through life are people like my boss's ex wife who has barely worked a day in her life and has now amassed considerable personal wealth from using her considerable beauty to marry very rich men - it's certainly not her brains. But she is undoubtedly one of the privileged elite.

Most men are stuck in the rat race and will work till 65. At the bottom you have men doing the dirtiest jobs, and in the more professional sectors men seem to be more privileged on the whole but are much more likely to make enough money that their wife doesn't have to work full time and can forego the stress of a career job (something which is often frowned upon on here but is no doubt a privilege for women who don't want to work or aren't intellectually gifted - they can still marry a successful man and live a great quality of life in a way which a dimwitted male won't likely ever be able to).

I tend to avoid the word privilege and use advantage instead. The working world for example favours men. It doesn't favour women in the same way but because of societal expectations (patriarchy) it's hard to balance things out. Therefore women end up with lower pensions, lower paid jobs, less financial independence etc.

I wanted to share care of my children with my now exH so that we could both have our careers but he refused to even ask for flexible working because he didn't want to colleagues and management to consider him as less professional than his peers (his words). So I had to take the hit.

That's one example of how men are advantaged. I will also have to work until I'm 67. But I have lost 15 years of career and earning capacity snd have re entered the job market on less than I was on nearly 20 years ago. Because patriarch notions of it being more acceptable for a woman to take a career hit than a man.

That's one example. Saying that patriarchy is problematic also doesn't mean I hate men, it means that the system in which we exist offers, generally speaking, more advantages if you are male - but they still come at a cost - for men and women (in terms of health, mental snd physical etc)

RedDogsBeg · 01/08/2021 15:14

Most Trans women are beautiful humans, in my experience, the sort of people who would not hurt a fly, and just want to get on with life, without being constantly targeted by the media, TERFs, or anyone else. So you have managed to come up with some examples of Trans women doing something wrong. Well done, very good. Do you think these people represent the whole community? No. In every community there are shtty people. Christ, don't tar everyone with the same brush*.

This alone shows your utter disregard for the very basics of safeguarding, this has been explained to you yet still you come back with this. What you seem to want is that you and all TW are given a special pass that elevates you above everyone else. When what never happens does happen then what? What are you personally going to say to the victims, and I mean actually to their faces, in person?

I think I could write and write and write and none of you would agree with me on anything. I feel so fed up, you see me as a man. OK. And you all mistrust men. OK. Fine. I don't blame you, I hate men, the vast majority. Except for Harrison Ford in Star Wars, maybe. I can now see what it's all about. Nothing to do with being open minded, or giving people the benefit of the doubt. Just warped paranoid minds.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt - that's worked really well in the past and present hasn't it? Karen White given the benefit of the doubt numerous times, look how well that went - one of the women he raped was so badly damaged she will likely never have children. Katie Dolatowski was given the benefit of the doubt and two children, that's right children were the collateral damage of that. Priests were given the benefit of the doubt, Nuns were given the benefit of the doubt, sports coaches were given the benefit of the doubt, Jimmy Saville was given the benefit of the doubt. What is the number of people damaged and destroyed by others being given the benefit of the doubt that is acceptable to you?

Those are the facts, the evidence is there for all to see, including you. It's not paranoia or being closed minded, it is cold, harsh reality.

I tried to put forward something intelligent, and I haven't received a single kind word. Just a load of crap and abuse.

That is a load of disingenuous rubbish, many posts on here have shown you a kindness that imo you do not warrant. The posts here have been backed by evidence, disagreeing with you is not abuse.

If you lot would treat every human being like a person, and not worry about what's between their legs, you'd be better off for it.

You respond with this after all the evidence you have been provided with? You dismiss the well evidenced concerns of women and girls and yet claim to be prepared to die for them? For the record, I do treat every human being as a person, I judge them on the content of their character. However, I will not relax safeguarding for anyone, it must apply across the board. Again, it has been evidenced to you the reasons why the male sex class is segregated from the female sex class in certain situations, you dismiss this as worrying about what's between peoples legs and this is a perfect illustration of your entire attitude to women and girls.

Sorry Chickenyhead, if I didn't address your post, if I had to address every post on here that was generally having a go at me and exasperated me, I'd be here all day. Argggh, this is so frustrating

You read Chikenyhead's posts and you still respond in this offensive manner?

GromblesofGrimbledon · 01/08/2021 15:13

@WallaceinAnderland

I tried to put forward something intelligent, and I haven't received a single kind word. Just a load of crap and abuse.

If only women were as kind as these transwomen

OP wants kindness, not women's actual, reasoned, researched, or considered opinions.

WallaceinAnderland · 01/08/2021 15:10

I tried to put forward something intelligent, and I haven't received a single kind word. Just a load of crap and abuse.

If only women were as kind as these transwomen

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 15:10

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Floralcoral · 01/08/2021 15:07

@SourAppleChew

The patriarchy is as damaging for men as it is for women. It's not an either or situation. Both sexes are negatively affected.

I agree.

I guess there are varying degrees in how far you believe men are privileged. I always roll my eyes a bit when some women make out that men breeze through life. The only people I've seen breeze through life are people like my boss's ex wife who has barely worked a day in her life and has now amassed considerable personal wealth from using her considerable beauty to marry very rich men - it's certainly not her brains. But she is undoubtedly one of the privileged elite.

Most men are stuck in the rat race and will work till 65. At the bottom you have men doing the dirtiest jobs, and in the more professional sectors men seem to be more privileged on the whole but are much more likely to make enough money that their wife doesn't have to work full time and can forego the stress of a career job (something which is often frowned upon on here but is no doubt a privilege for women who don't want to work or aren't intellectually gifted - they can still marry a successful man and live a great quality of life in a way which a dimwitted male won't likely ever be able to).

In this context that isn't what male privilege means though.
LoislovesStewie · 01/08/2021 15:06

If you are at all interested, I suggest that you read an article by Claudia Elphicke on the history of public toilets in the UK. As ever, men did not want women to have these facilities, as it would mean that women weren't chained to their home. They would be able to travel, take paid employment and have a life if they could find a place to urinate/defecate. You might be interested to learn that public lavatories for women only became common after World War 1, when clearly women were doing 'men's work'. The great social upheaval of those times forced the building of ladies loos. Until then, men had public lavatories but would actively resist women having the same, going so far as to vandalize any that were built. So in the last 100 years we have gone from women getting their own safe spaces to carry out natural functions to women being told, by some transwomen, that we can't keep those very basic, safe spaces.
FWIW, I think every person should have safe spaces;just not by causing distress or detriment to biological women. Most men now understand this, why don't you?

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 15:06

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Floralcoral · 01/08/2021 15:05

and not worry about what's between their legs, you'd be better off for it.

Men don't have to overly worry, your privilege is showing.

Waitwhat23 · 01/08/2021 15:05

Oooh, did I hit on the truth there? I suppose we'll see on other platforms.

And the website I linked to shows exactly the mindset of people who use misogynistic, violent slurs.

Datingandnoideahowto · 01/08/2021 15:04

You haven’t answered my point @Nefelibata33. Would you mind answering me?

notaclownfish · 01/08/2021 15:03

@Nefelibata33, a lot of people here have responded to you kindly, asked if you were okay, taken the time to explain their point of view to you. You have not been abused, you have just been disagreed with.

MoreRainThanAnyYet · 01/08/2021 15:01

@Nefelibata33

Thank you SourAppleChew, finally someone agreed with something I said. You're a good person
Ok, it was a spoof all along, was it?
Deliriumoftheendless · 01/08/2021 15:00

I see this thread is going the predictable way.

Starts off living everyone, ends up calling women Nazis.

Is it time to wake up to Sonny and Cher again?

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 01/08/2021 14:58

Oh dear. So it goes.

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 14:57

What the hell makes you think women want their partner to do everything for them? Outrageous.

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 14:56

Not sure what that has to do with anything the OP is talking about though?

It's to do with patriarchy.

CandyLeBonBon · 01/08/2021 14:56

@SourAppleChew

Women weren't allowed to work. By men. Women have been told for centuries, by men, what they can and can't do.

Exactly my point.

Men tried to do everything for their partners and were sometimes even shamed if their wife had to work. This slightly patronising gesture is now seen as oppression.

It was oppression in a sense but ultimately I'd probably not have campaigned to be sent down coal mines or up chimneys if I'd been a woman back then.

The patriarchy is as damaging for men as it is for women. It's not an either or situation. Both sexes are negatively affected.
Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 14:56

@SourAppleChew

Women weren't allowed to work. By men. Women have been told for centuries, by men, what they can and can't do.

Exactly my point.

Men tried to do everything for their partners and were sometimes even shamed if their wife had to work. This slightly patronising gesture is now seen as oppression.

It was oppression in a sense but ultimately I'd probably not have campaigned to be sent down coal mines or up chimneys if I'd been a woman back then.

Yet when the men went to war women did do that stuff, whilst raising children. Because there weren't misogynistic arseholes to stop them.
CandyLeBonBon · 01/08/2021 14:54

Nobody has abused you @Nefelibata33. Disagreeing with you is not abuse. Showing you and explaining why women are concerned is not abuse.

Nobody has been unkind.

GromblesofGrimbledon · 01/08/2021 14:53

@Nefelibata33

I adore men. I don't have any issues with men and I don't go in for all the "patriarchy" chat. I just don't want men in my sex-segregated spaces because statistically they are more of a danger to women than women are to men.

Many PPs have put the data to support that on here for you to read.

I don't think men can identify out of their sex category and so I don't think transwomen should share female-only spaces.

It's as simple as that and has nothing to do with respect for any individual. My partner wouldn't insist on sharing female spaces. He would find that abhorrent. So why do you?

Is it just because you really really really feel like a woman? That's not enough to trample over women's rights.

@NecessaryScene has suggested you fight for third spaces. What do you think to this?

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 14:53

Women weren't allowed to work. By men. Women have been told for centuries, by men, what they can and can't do.

Exactly my point.

Men tried to do everything for their partners and were sometimes even shamed if their wife had to work. This slightly patronising gesture is now seen as oppression.

It was oppression in a sense but ultimately I'd probably not have campaigned to be sent down coal mines or up chimneys if I'd been a woman back then.