Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

Well colour me shocked that the 2 men on the thread agree with each other about women having an easy life with allll the choices!!! 🙄

@SourAppleChew I’m now a high earner. I used to be in a minimum wage job.

The minimum wage job that paid next to nothing was a million times more stressful than the very well paid job I now do.

Just FYI.

ODFOD Sour.

A bunch of women making stuff up in the equivalent of a dick swinging thread is evidence of nothing. Look at ONS stats for raw data.

I have worked since I was 13. That's 35 years now, I don't retire til past 65. I am single now but even with my DP I earned twice his wage.

I never had any choice but to work. I've done all types of jobs through university. I've paid my own way.

On the other hand my mum was what you would call a kept woman. She was trapped at home for her entire life bringing up his 8 children, whilst he was in the pub every night with his friends getting pissed.

My dad couldn't even find his own socks, make a cup of tea, or a sandwich. She was a slave to the day she died after 68 years of ownership.

She had a night job for a short while but he stopped it. She never had nice clothes, make up or anything for herself in those 68 years. He resented paying £800 for her hearing aide because she never worked. I told her not to get one, because who wants to listen to a misogynistic wanker shout at her all day.

You are like my dad. He resented women too.

'Good people' agree?

Good grief.

Moral value is measured by compliance apparently.

Not really sure how this helps. Yes, some people are luckier than others.

Yes sour apple you may well have a point but this thread is not the place to explore it. Please start a new thread.

"and ask yourself how many of them could've been written by a man."

If you want to fight for more men to be SAHPs really just go ahead.

If a couple both work and share finances, the one who has the highest paid job (often the one who carried on working) usually has the more stressful day, as pay is usually based on responsibility. The flipside obviously is that they have more personal security but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you work you don't get to see your kids growing up.
Bloody hell! I worked full time, did a very stressful, but enjoyable job and quite honestly wasn't paid a fortune. What more can I say?

Oh look. Your male privilege is showing!

Is the OP really here moaning that women aren’t being nice to them?? It never ceases to amaze me how much those born male continue to expect that women will just rush in to Pat their head & say “there there” the moment they say they’re unhappy

I’m extremely unhappy that women’s single sex spaces are being erased but women’s unhappiness doesn’t seem to matter….

I would die to protect a woman.

Bit weird. If you are going to die to protect a random stranger, why not also men?

Feminists aren't asking anyone to die for them - just for protection of the rights and policies that enable equal participation for women in society.

How depressingly predictable from the OP: aggressive from the outset, women must do and act as I tell them, deny, deny, deny any consequences for women, provide no coherent argument or evidence, NATWALT, throw out insults, be disingenuous, frame disagreement as abuse and for a final flourish abusive name calling and insults.

Posting in good faith, my arse.

If a couple both work and share finances, the one who has the highest paid job (often the one who carried on working) usually has the more stressful day, as pay is usually based on responsibility. The flipside obviously is that they have more personal security but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you work you don't get to see your kids growing up.

Define 'stressful job'. I'd say you've got quite a dated attitude which is Mired in sexist stereotypes.

I would die to protect a woman.

It's a shame you won't listen to her though. Or consider her individual needs, her privacy, her dignity, her history and how being born biologically female may have affected her. Tbh she would probably appreciate that a whole lot more.

For what its worth, I'm never going to stand by while anyone harms or intimidates a TW, or a TM or a NB person, or anyone else. It's not that i don't understand your needs and your feelings, and it is not that I don't care about them. It is just that women have needs too, they are incompatible, and women just co operating and shutting up and suffering to benefit TW is not a solution. It's nothing good.

The answer is third spaces.

No, the choice to give up working and sacrifice some freedom instead (often not very much when finances are shared) is a female privilege.

Strictly speaking there is nothing to stop men also giving up work. However, men seem less willing to fight to change societal perceptions of how men and women should behave.

But you've essentially hijack a thread where women are talking about protecting and safeguarding their protected spaces by shouting "but what about the men"?

If you're concerned about make mental health, and how unfairly you think men are treated, then start your own thread. As stated, the patriarchal structures that exist in our society do favour men over women, but that comes with an unpleasant price tag. Of course tjat needs addressing. Feel free to campaign for the better mental health services for men. Help break down societies gendered expectations that fuel toxic masculinity but don't lecture women with your tedious whataboutery.

I tend to avoid the word privilege and use advantage instead. The working world for example favours men. It doesn't favour women in the same way but because of societal expectations (patriarchy) it's hard to balance things out. Therefore women end up with lower pensions, lower paid jobs, less financial independence etc.

I wanted to share care of my children with my now exH so that we could both have our careers but he refused to even ask for flexible working because he didn't want to colleagues and management to consider him as less professional than his peers (his words). So I had to take the hit.

That's one example of how men are advantaged. I will also have to work until I'm 67. But I have lost 15 years of career and earning capacity snd have re entered the job market on less than I was on nearly 20 years ago. Because patriarch notions of it being more acceptable for a woman to take a career hit than a man.

That's one example. Saying that patriarchy is problematic also doesn't mean I hate men, it means that the system in which we exist offers, generally speaking, more advantages if you are male - but they still come at a cost - for men and women (in terms of health, mental snd physical etc)

I agree with much of this.

I don't think that it can be authoritatively put in a box as many seem to try, because every situation is different. Many posters on here seem to see a job as a barometer of success but most men I know see it as a means to pay the bills.

If a couple both work and share finances, the one who has the highest paid job (often the one who carried on working) usually has the more stressful day, as pay is usually based on responsibility. The flipside obviously is that they have more personal security but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you work you don't get to see your kids growing up.

tried to put forward something intelligent, and I haven't received a single kind word.

Female people do not owe anyone the service of kindness or indulgence or agreement on the grounds that they're female and this is their job. You've actually been responded to more patiently than the female posters here would speak with another female: go and read AIBU. Female people don't indulge each other much at all, their expectations of each other are generally very high indeed.

Just a load of crap and abuse.

No one has abused you. No one has been as rude to you as you are freely being yourself on this thread. If you're seeing women trying to explain their issues and needs and feelings to you as 'crap' then really I think you're probably explaining how subhuman you really perceive women as. You don't seem to believe they are entitled to independence of thought or opinion or need that is different to what you tell them.

Even if it were possible to do some kind of Vulcan mindmeld on the door to assess if this particular male person is a sincere TW who is a good person who will not use their special access to the detriment of the women and children present -

Even if there was any way at all to gatekeep which male people come in and which don't -

Women who cannot be in mixed sex spaces will still be forced out by their presence.

That's not inclusion. Those women are probably lovely and harmless too. Those women also have lives, and needs and diversities.

Mixed sex spaces does not work for all women. Unfortunately this requires recognising that TW and W are not one and the same thing with identical needs that can always be met as one group.

OP you have absolutely NO idea what it is to be a woman. You haven't got a clue how to put anyone before yourself.

As for Sour, I'm surprised anyone married you at all.

and not worry about what's between their legs

This is what you say if you have never had to think about the consequences of possessing female biology.

Imagine saying it on a site called 'mumsnet'.

Also privilege isn't about life being easy, but it's that many elements aren't made harder due to your biological sex. Again, if you think about it I am sure you can imagine a few examples of why that's the case. I also agree that society does disadvantage men in many ways, and that there should be support as its a tragedy that so many men are lost to suicide; but that doesn't negate the point that male privilege exists.

I certainly don't. Never have.

MALE PRIVILEGE