Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

Chickeny

(Add in ‘adult’ and Human’ as needed, of course! Maybe you aren’t adult yet.)

The thing is, my transwomen friends aren't trying to take away from biological women.

They don't expect to insert themselves in biological women's safe spaces.

They don't agree with transwomen who have the benefit of male puberty being in women's sports.

And they are horrified that trans identifying sex offenders are being transferred in to women's prisons. Horrified that the judge found men's right trumped women's rights yet again.

The problem transwomen have are TRAs. Sending rape and death threats to women. Calling women transphobic because they sneezed funny.

TRAs regularly come on this board and attack us. Call us cis and deliberately inflame us, knowing that we have the right not to buy in to gender identity. They do it to provoke.

I'm not sure what your aim is however. You genuinely appear to be trying to appeal to us on a humanity front. Please try to do the same in return.

Imagine 5 men accosted you in a car park and took turns raping you until you bled. Its dark and your clothes are over your face. You can't see them, you can hear them and the pain. You are bruised and mentally broken. You wish you had died.

Imagine you then go to rape counselling after weeks of locking yourself in your house. Your first time leaving the house and you end up in a waiting room alone with a stranger who is a man. An innocent man.

How do you think that might feel as a weaker biological woman?

I can tell you if you want me to?

Clearly you think there’s something that qualifies someone to be a woman other than being female. What?

Do you acknowledge that many women don’t have this ‘something’, and just are women because their bodies are female?

You are male. Your ideas of ‘woman’ are what you can see, read about, talk to others about, watch on screen. That’s very different from being landed with a female body and getting on with it!

Op your ramblings are very hard to follow and logically inconsistent.
Are you suggesting that there are no self-declared trans women that have harmed a woman? If so then you are factually wrong.
What are your thoughts on j k Rowling, out of interest?

stop hating on trans women.

Please report any posts that you feel are transphobic. And most especially any that you feel ‘hate on’ trans people.

However, perhaps you can clarify whether you feel that women who disagree with you are ‘hating on’ you? Do you feel that any woman who does not simply believe your statements to be true, when they are unevidenced and not based in facts that pertain to a group of people, hates you?

Nobody on this thread knows you. I doubt anyone posting on this thread hates you. Speaking for myself, I don’t hate you. I don’t hate trans people.

If you actually want to discuss the things you have said you want to discuss, then do so.

It seems that you are seeking to emotionally manipulate people though. You have posted no proof to persuade us that as females we should trust that not one male who has transitioned wishes us harm.

You aren't a woman, you are a trans woman. You have a penis. You do not belong in women's only spaces. JKR has encouraged many people to find their voice and is an amazing woman.

OP, nobody here hates transwomen. I know some transwomen. They are normal human beings. They've had a lot of hurdles and trauma too, as have I. But we don't actually have common traumas, they are separate but equally important.

Transwomen aren't evil, or bad, or all wronguns etc, they have suffered too. They deserve their own unique services tailored for their specific needs. I would happily march for that and sign any petition wanting that.

But I will protect biological women's rights too. Because they really, really are very important.

Compassion is a two way street.

Women by sex have had a lot forcibly imposed upon them in the last decade. Words have no meaning and nowhere is safe. Awards and positions intended for biological women are being given to biological men again. Women's sports are becoming men's sports.

There is no Compassion for biological women.

OP, what makes a trans woman a woman? I am a woman because I born female and had female experiences, experiences based both on my biology (periods, child birth, migraines linked to my periods, etc) and society’s treatment of girls and women (so many instances of being cat-called, touched my random men, feeling menaced by strange men, having to be careful of walking alone, etc). How does a feeling a man has that he wishes to be perceived as a woman override our lived experiences? Woman is not a costume.

OP you have very rapidly come down to the old trope of ‘just be kind’. Please make that demand of your own sex first. When men stop flashing us, groping us, sexually assaulting us, wolf whistling us, demeaning us at work, etc etc then we can talk about being kind. But let your sex do some work on it first before you ask more of us.

shouldn't all women feel some sort of feeling for each other? All women?

Why? Who led you to believe this? Or are you confusing that many women, not all, may have shared experiences that resonate with another’s experience. As a female. Not as ‘women’. There are so many ways to be a woman. The majority of shared experiences are because we are females, with female bodies. Not because of this nebulous thing people call womanhood.

JK Rowling posted a load of crap.

Please tell exactly what she has posted that is ‘crap’. What specifically do you disagree with?

What is happening to feminism? All women are valid.

Feminism is for females, whether they identify as a woman, or not. Transmen and NB females have needs that feminism fights for, because of their bodies.

Why should any woman feel threatened by trans women?

We have covered this.

There have been some comments, like, trans women are just like men. Rapists just like men. It's absolute crap.

And the statistics show this.

Seriously, do you believe that?

Yes. Because statistics and facts. Do you have any that support your statements? Just telling us repeatedly is unconvincing.

Trans women are NOT men. If you believe that, you've got no fcking clue, and you don't know what you're talking about.*

Males cannot change sex in the UK in anyway but legally. If a male cannot accept they remain male, perhaps the treatment they have received has not been up to standard. For instance, If a male did not tell the doctors they are male when it came to receiving blood that was donated by a female who had been once pregnant, they may have very serious health repercussions.

And again, male pattern behaviour is not necessarily changed through transition. Certainly, some male socialisation still comes through when people anonymously post on the internet over time. Including misogyny.

Sorry if that insults you, but the world is changing, if you can't handle it, tough sht.*

And this is an example of that behaviour.

You are a transwoman by gender and a man by sex. You are not a woman. Never can be.

Please stop trying to insert yourself in to women's sex based right. You have a man's sex based rights.

Please stop.

I'm happy to call you by your chosen name and pronouns, because I treat people with respect. But I will not lie for you and call you a woman. You are a transwoman, be proud.

Third safe spaces, separate but safe.

I'm a feminist.I would die to protect a woman. that's not what a feminist is.

chickeny

I think that some people will simply never be able to acknowledge the truth about the males who commit these sex crimes.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman.

Lovely to know you would protect women. However, feminism centres females. And only females.

So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women?

Feminists are not ‘against’ transwomen. Feminists are about ensuring the rights of females are upheld and strengthened to ensure females do not experience negative discrimination because of their female bodies, as we have experienced for millennia. Transwoman are not part of that remit because they are male. Part of the sex class that oppress the other sex. Historically and currently.

Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

I think I covered this off last post. Please do some research and post links that support that ‘Trans women don't hurt or kill women,’

Trans woman wants to hurt you. are you honestly telling us that you have never seen the males who identify as women posting threats to women on social media? Are you telling us the males who identify as women who posted pictures of their dicks and porn on Joanne Rowling’s ickabog tweets for children we’re not harming children?

Do you think those same males sending threats to the author directly are not hurting her? That none of them meant the threats, that women should consider those jokes.

Do you think the males who are trans who post threats to women every single day are not hurting women?

Because I think you might be surprised at the truth.

@Helleofabore

Unfortunately as a survivor of severe rapes and sexual assaults, (like many, many women in the UK) I have come to the conclusion that nobody cares about rape victims.

From being doubted, victim blamed, the appalling rate of charging and convicting, to the paltry sentences handed out.

Nobody cares at all.

And now, to top it off, the very things that have kept me alive, the refuges, rape counselling services and even the toilets I have hidden in, are being made man accessible.

Nobody cares about women.

I'm sure that the statistics are that 25% of women have suffered sexual assault after age 16. I think it is higher in my experience.

So that 25% of women by sex, or 12.5% of the population matter less than the demands of the 1% of transwomen (men by sex).

No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

We know that media lies. They keep stating that males committing crimes are the opposite sex. It is so very wrong.

A good thing that many who will post on this thread and many reading along have seen the threads where the links to males who identify as women committing crimes are detailed. Because we have so many posters telling us transitioned males are not committing crimes when they are.

I would instead point you to the UK prison statistics for the crimes types that are committed for each sex. 98% of sexi crime is committed by males.

Currently the proportion of males who identify as women in UK prisons that are in prison for crimes that are sex crimes or violence is high. It is no where near the proportion of sex crime committed by females.

The statistics do not support your assertion. At all.

In fact, no study says that males who transition reduce their propensity to commit crime and the type of crime to anywhere near the rate of females.

Shall I also post a link that show just a few examples of transitioned males masturbating in female toilets on the porn channels. This is a growing category of porn and there is an ever increasing and rapidly increasing selection of male doing exactly what we are told they don’t do!

And maybe we can also post you the links to the evidence that transitioned males who have used female refuges and caused harm to the females there. Such as masturbating in a shared dormitory with traumatised rape victims.

Perhaps you might like to look at the facts rather than dismissing women and their concerns the way you have.

If any of you reading this, maybe yourselves, or loved ones, have been offered meds, FCKING REFUSE THEM.*

Agreed - no children should be taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones because they are gender non conforming or think they are ‘in the wrong body’

Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

You might find this study interesting. I did.

Effects of Medical Interventions on Gender Dysphoria and Body Image: A Follow-Up Study. 30th August 2017

The aim of this study from the European Network for the Investigation of Gender Incongruence is to investigate the status of all individuals who had applied for gender confirming interventions from 2007 to 2009

The main objective of follow-up on the cohort was to provide a description of the current status of all applicants after 4 to 6 years after clinical entry and describing participants with and without medical transition

135 natal males (119 living in the female role, 12 in the male role, 4 did not report their current gender role) and 66 natal females (60 living in the male role, 5 in the female role, 1 did not report a current gender role)

So if you work the sums... 8.88% of males and 8.33% of the females detransitioned (this does not include those who did not answer the question which if the answer was to detransition would make these figures higher). And in Figure 3. 22.2% of those who socially transitioned, detransitioned.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

Are we to believe your assertions? Or a team of researchers who followed up on real patients in Europe ?

And I also add, this was from before the massive unexplained increase in young female transitioners such as Keira Bell.

If you truly wanted the best health care to be given to all, you would surely be very supportive of producing in-depth research into how many people detransition over time. Because your assertion that it is one person is blatantly false and ridiculously so.

I am very glad though that you are saying many “trans kids are happy as they are”. That means they are receiving excellent care, individually tailored to their specific needs and that have been made comfortable to be in the body they are in. They have no need being under 18 to be making life limiting, potentially life shortening and irreversible decisions. And organisations that encourage them to do so should be dealt with harshly.

If any of you reading this, maybe yourselves, or loved ones, have been offered meds, FCKING REFUSE THEM.*

Please do not post such irresponsible advice on a public forum.

No one should be telling others to refuse medication prescribed by doctors. What a seriously dangerous thing to do. By all means make choices for yourself but to make blanket statements such as this is very irresponsible.