Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GC newbie

34 replies

Xlalalaladdd · 31/07/2021 12:05

Hi all. First thread on here, as I've only recently done more reading and thinking about GC feminism, and realise that my feminism aligns with it. I'm also appalled at the rampant misogyny aimed at women for speaking about it, even if only to raise the issue.

Like many, if not most, of you, I respect trans rights and trans people and wouldn't have ever considered myself transphobic. However, when chatting to a group of my (very educated and usually liberal) friends, I was told that my opinions were hateful and I was aligning myself with transphobes and basically shut down. I really don't think I could have possibly said anything hateful, just raised the issue of safe spaces/ prisons and the issue of how far along someone is in the trans process.

My question is, how do I continue to stand up for women's rights without being labelled a transphobe by even close female friends? People wanting to change gender, be non binary etc doesn't bother me, and I would always respect people's names, and 99% of times it doesn't matter to me what gender people say they are, but I just think there issues that should be debated for women's safety.
Sigh. Sorry if that's all really obvious to you. I'm new to this, and have never considered myself a bigot, and it's freaked me out a bit!

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 31/07/2021 12:37

Many people new to the issues have found this thread useful:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Xlalalaladdd · 31/07/2021 12:37

Thanks all. Good to have a community here.
I've never experienced such a quick shutting down of debate with the accusation of being 'hateful'. And this is from women who purport to be feminists, and to support vulnerable women. The doublethink has just shocked me.
I'm lucky in that I have no need to be directly confrontational in my own life, but nevertheless I think I'm going to have to develop a tougher hide.
Seeing prominent, liberal journalists (Hadley Freeman etc) speak up in favour of womens rights has made me feel more reassured that I'm not a secret bigot...

OP posts:
purpleboy · 31/07/2021 12:35

Welcome op, it's so hard to have the realization that your views are classed as bigoted and transphobic, especially when you have never considered yourself in that way. But the harsh reality is that is how some people will see you, I have found the names don't hurt anymore, I'm so used to be called names that they don't have any meaning anymore.
I've also found that everyone I've ever spoken to is horrified by what I'm telling them and very much disagree with the current movement. You have solid rationale and science on your side, all I've ever seen form the other side is "feelz" and that just doesn't cut it for me. People are waking up and the tide is turning, if it is safe to do so, keep speaking out, keep dripping bit of information into conversations with your friends, ask them questions that you know they will struggle to answer, the penny will drop eventually, they just probably haven't thought it through properly yet.

ArabellaScott · 31/07/2021 12:27

Welcome, OP.

I'm afraid the bad news is that if you voice anything that is not 100% supportive of ;transwomen are women' you will be classed as transphobic. The more reasonable genderist supporters might say you are 'misguided' or in need of education, the more vociferous ones will say you are a bigot. There is always the risk of threat, doxxing, attack and even 'hate' charges, especially in Scotland.

It was this requirement for 100% adherence to the tenets that first led me to question what was going on.

And latterly I've found that the idea of it being about transpeople is just a smokescreen. Most of this movement is about dismantling women's rights, nothing more or less. Trans people are being used - weaponised, if you will - to achieve this.

The good news is that more and more women (and some men) are speaking up on the subject. I know of very VERY few people who actually have read up on the subject and agree that TWAW. And more and more people are not willing to stay silent. You can see from something like Laurel Hubbard how the vast majority of people feel on the subject.

Anyway. You're not alone. Courage calls to courage. Smile

NecessaryScene · 31/07/2021 12:18

My question is, how do I continue to stand up for women's rights without being labelled a transphobe by even close female friends?

There's no sure-fire way to avoid this. If someone thinks calling someone a transphobe is a way to win a point, they'll do it.

Many people are currently in an environment where that works. And lacking real arguments, lashing out like that is likely all some people on the other side have. They'll just want the discussion to go away, so it's a tactic to end the discussion.

In the short term, you as an individual just have to not care.

In the longer term, we collectively have to shift the debate enough that it doesn't work as a debating tactic, so people don't reflexively resort to it. We just tune out accusations of "transphobia" as background noise. Increasingly everyone will, and it will hold no currency.

Good recent article on this: It’s still possible to “cancel” gender-critical feminists, but this strategy won’t work

What was once taboo has become mainstream, with each person and publication in the respectability chain emboldened by the outspokenness of the one before them.

TinselAngel · 31/07/2021 12:15

It'd help if I put the link

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 31/07/2021 12:15

The answer is you cant. That is how the debate has been framed.

FloralBunting · 31/07/2021 12:14

Simple answer is - you can't.

If you stand up for women's rights in any capacity, even bending over backwards with your language and offering compromises up the wazoo, you will be called transphobic.

The only thing you can do is be silent, or keep on speaking and make your peace with being called names. It's horrible, of course, but I'd rather you knew what you'll face than be ground into dust by the bullies because you hoped they gave a crap.

Fwiw, the insults do tend to lose their sting pretty quickly, and this is why it's important to make sure you've done your research so when you do have moments when the name calling gets to you, you can draw on your own integrity because in the end, that's what matters.

TinselAngel · 31/07/2021 12:12

You might find this short film about "bigoteering" interesting.

Swipe left for the next trending thread