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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Alex Massie on JKR and Death Threats

38 replies

Igneococcus · 25/07/2021 08:26

I put the link into the old thread but I think this deserves its own thread. Thanks Alex Massie, excellent piece of writing:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8547d582-ecbf-11eb-a9f0-ebe3f77d4a7e?shareToken=f64b5e8f965fddd747c4d63ffcdc03a3

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BaronMunchausen · 25/07/2021 15:03

@highame

I meant, ONLY in the Scottish edition - what about the offline readership in the UK
Yes, I've got today's paper in England and the article's not in it.

The Sunday Times in Scotland readership has been on the rise recently, but it will still have a much lower circulation.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 25/07/2021 12:29

Lots of good comments. This one jumped out at me because the 'ugliness' trope is something that was used as 'informed commentary' from both men and women against the Suffragettes. (Courtesy of a British Library exhibition.)

The cabinet that had a section in about the Suffragettes - was actually a broadsheet from May 25 1914 that had a gallery of photographs of Suffragettes.

The story was mocking the Suffragettes as a new genus for their ugliness (catching them mid-action, "dishevelled from the fight," part way through speaking etc.).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304834-British-Library-exhibition-Unfinished-Business-The-Fight-for-Womens-Rights

Times comment July 25, 2021:

For Women Scotland are gathering at The Mound in Edinburgh at 2pm on 2nd August, the site of the historic speakers' corner, to share their stories about the threat to women in Scotland today.

Those attending a recent gathering on the day of the original date for Marion Millar's hearing were widely criticised by some young women on social media. One comment suggested they were a bunch of ugly old women! The next time they're tempted to do this, they might like to consider where the freedoms they enjoy today came from. It was the civil action taken by these very same "ugly old women" that resulted in the right to birth control outwith marriage, the right to be defended against rape within marriage, the right to abortion, the right to an equal share of wealth when a relationship breaks down, the right to equal pay, and many more. Let's see what these social media posters think the day they waken up in Scotland and the concept of woman has been erased entirely.

BraveBananaBadge · 25/07/2021 12:08

Excellent writing, he often talks sense on this issue iirc but this is especially good. Like JKR he has an eloquence TRAs always, always lack.

Leafstamp · 25/07/2021 11:42

@334bu

Excellent article.

As to who is behind threats etc, I think that herein lies the problem highlighted by the letter penned by a group of transmen. Those awful pictures are not being sent by transexuals or people with gender disphoria , they are pictures of people satisfying a sexual fetish.

Yes, indeed, for anyone new to this, it’s called AGP - Autogynephilia. It is widely accepted (including by some trans women themselves) to be the reason that some men want to become women.
Cailin66 · 25/07/2021 11:42

@TooWicked Wonderful. I’m definitely going to have to resubscribe to The Times now.

You should because it's so worth it to see the comments as well.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 25/07/2021 11:33

Excellent
I agree with PP that the "it's not trans people" bit is untrue & the last defence of the sacred caste. I think the intended meaning is that is not "old school" transsexuals (simply because they are a tiny minority) but it misses the opportunity to point out how everyone is trans if they wish to declare themselves so.

yourhairiswinterfire · 25/07/2021 10:55

That is an excellent article! Thanks for sharing Igneococcus.

Mollyollydolly · 25/07/2021 10:48

That's so good I've posted it on Facebook.

oneglassandpuzzled · 25/07/2021 10:24

There are so many strange things pc going on with Nicola Sturgeon. The injunction, for instance.

AnneLovesGilbert · 25/07/2021 10:20

Than you for sharing OP. What a fantastic piece and such excellent comments. Most people going about their days are appalled by what’s happening and the more sunlight shone the better.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 25/07/2021 10:17

@334bu

Excellent article.

As to who is behind threats etc, I think that herein lies the problem highlighted by the letter penned by a group of transmen. Those awful pictures are not being sent by transexuals or people with gender disphoria , they are pictures of people satisfying a sexual fetish.

Those signatories had a well made point.

I've never understood the cognitive dissonance of being obsessed with something that is a major component of dysphoria as it is currently understood.

TooWicked · 25/07/2021 10:13

Inviting JK Rowling to “suck my trans dick” seems a mightily strange way in which to be “on the right side of history”. So strange, in fact, that it seems like something to which we should pay some attention.

Wonderful. I’m definitely going to have to resubscribe to The Times now.

FreeBritnee · 25/07/2021 10:09

Keep sharing. It’s a great article.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 25/07/2021 10:07

@334bu

Excellent article.

As to who is behind threats etc, I think that herein lies the problem highlighted by the letter penned by a group of transmen. Those awful pictures are not being sent by transexuals or people with gender disphoria , they are pictures of people satisfying a sexual fetish.

Yes, a certain fetish that we are not allowed to mention or talk about, even though it is very relevant to the discussion.

This is why the intimidation and harassment and no debate - because if the wider public knows about their dirty little secret, then they see it for what it really is.

All the while women are being unwilling participants in men's twisted fantasies.

But hey, don't forget to be kind Angry.

334bu · 25/07/2021 09:58

It shouldn't matter but JKR's position on independence makes her persona non grata amongst many on the pro independence side. They of course are the same people telling women to shut up about the GRA as independence is more important than women's rights.

highame · 25/07/2021 09:43

I meant, ONLY in the Scottish edition - what about the offline readership in the UK

highame · 25/07/2021 09:42

Why is this in the Scottish edition. The Scottish edition is only available online to those of us south of the border. Or is it that we have a quota which limits what is published, maybe a little unfair, the Times is usually pretty good on this subject.

BettyFilous · 25/07/2021 09:40

Excellent article and excellent comments.

NCwhatsmynameagain · 25/07/2021 09:40

Thanks for sharing, fantastic article

334bu · 25/07/2021 09:39

Excellent article.

As to who is behind threats etc, I think that herein lies the problem highlighted by the letter penned by a group of transmen. Those awful pictures are not being sent by transexuals or people with gender disphoria , they are pictures of people satisfying a sexual fetish.

MidsomerMurmurs · 25/07/2021 09:38

Sturgeon is frit about this, no two ways about it. That pronouns video a few months ago. Disgraceful coward. What I struggle to understand is why the Tories don’t (yet) make more of this open goal.

Perhaps they don’t need to (yet), but the further into woo-woo land the SNP, Greens, LibDems and UK Labour go, the more glaring the opportunity is. Not sure if Scottish Labour will build on the baby-steps of acknowledging the need for single-sex spaces they took in the Holyrood campaign.

And down in Westminster, how long will it be before Johnson asks Starmer at PMQs what a woman is? (BJ routinely asks questions at PMQs rather than actually answering any). It’s one thing for Dawn Butler etc to “beclown” themselves about sex and gender, but for the supposedly forensic-minded human rights lawyer Starmer to do so too would be such a damning state of affairs.

Apparently it’s Carrie’s influence on BJ which is holding them back - I’m not sure that that will last when they need the electoral capital.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 25/07/2021 09:35

Do we need to commission the Leeds Spinners to create JKR her very own RIght Side of History or simply JKR banner?

Josephine March is in there, doing civil society's work in the comments - always good to see.

archive in case the share token lapses: archive.is/BiEth

TheHandmadeTails · 25/07/2021 09:26

^ agree Tib. Otherwise an excellent article.

Clymene · 25/07/2021 09:22

They all hate women - the TRAs. the men like sprout and Paisley. They are united in their absolute hatred for half the population.

The fact that the likes of Sturgeon stay silent while abuse is heaped on Scotland's most famous resident is despicable.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 25/07/2021 09:16

Excellent. I just want everyone in the world to read it!