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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it only white middle class women who are GC?

643 replies

Ziegfeld · 24/07/2021 19:27

I recently summoned courage to have “the talk” with an old friend who is gay. I wanted to know his current thoughts on sex based rights, and I thought (as we are old friends) even if we disagreed we could have a civilised conversation about it.

Unfortunately I think he called me transphobic about five minutes into the conversation when I asked, so if we say let’s have self ID, how do we tell whether someone genuinely believes themselves to be a TW or is a man simply announcing he is a woman solely for the purposes of accessing women-only spaces for bad intent. ( His answers to that were “well we need safeguarding” and “there are hardly any TWs, this isn’t a real concern” and “well ideally we should all just have gender neutral changing rooms”)

Some more things were said by both of us which I won’t go into here because I am sure we’ve all heard them before.

But then he said that it’s only white middle class women (like me) who have a problem with self ID and allowing TW access to women’s spaces. He said that working class women and women of colour have no problem at all with it.

I don’t think this is true - look at Allison Bailey for example. But I would be interested to know what other MNers think. Is this a race and class issue? Or is it that white middle class women tend to have more platforms to speak out than other women?

OP posts:
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BlaBlaSmthSmth · 24/07/2021 19:48

@dyslek

I believe it has been established on these boards that white middle class women are over represented in the twaw brigade. Black and working class women are less invested in this nonesense. Your friend is talking out of his arse, I would have to reassess the friendship, sorry.
I agree with this.. TWAW is a very privileged position to take. It shows such little empathy for the most vulnerable women who will be worst affected by their ideology.
yourhairiswinterfire · 24/07/2021 19:47

I also live in one of those places and third that suggestion Grin

I personally don't know a single person that buys this nonsense, thankfully.

somethinginoffensive · 24/07/2021 19:46
  1. He's wrong.
  1. What's his point? Does he not see middle class women as people?
BlaBlaSmthSmth · 24/07/2021 19:45

@Theeyeballsinthesky

OP I would just love your friend to trundle around say for example Boston (the lincolnshire one) Middlesbrough, Chatham (I was born there) & Wolverhampton with photos of alex Drummond, Laurel Hubbard,& Danielle muscato Abd ask them if they’re a) male or female & b) which changing rooms they should be in

He’s living in an utter bubble which he can afford to do because as always none of this affects him

I live in one of those places and I second that suggestion 😁
BloomingTrees · 24/07/2021 19:45

Wasn't that a criticism of the suffragettes, yet they managed to get all women the vote.

SpindleWhorl · 24/07/2021 19:43

What a very racist and classist assertion of your friend, OP. Some of the finest minds fighting for the rights of female humans are Women of Colour, and/or are working class. Oh, and gay/LBG. Maybe he can stick that intersectionality in his pipe.

It's such a desperate tactic to shut down discussion.

It's not even logical. Does a white m-c adult human female have no human rights, then? Of course they do. Including sex-based rights.

GCAcademic · 24/07/2021 19:43

I'm not white. How dare this man decide what I am happy with? He can get to fuck.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 24/07/2021 19:42

OP I would just love your friend to trundle around say for example Boston (the lincolnshire one) Middlesbrough, Chatham (I was born there) & Wolverhampton with photos of alex Drummond, Laurel Hubbard,& Danielle muscato Abd ask them if they’re a) male or female & b) which changing rooms they should be in

He’s living in an utter bubble which he can afford to do because as always none of this affects him

everythingcrossed · 24/07/2021 19:41

Dismissing an issue as "white and middle class " is a very overrated way of closing an argument down.

Clymene · 24/07/2021 19:40

Gender critical women who have in in court this year in the U.K.:

Sonia Appleby
Keira Bell
Allison Bailey
Maya Forstater
Raquel Rosario Sanchez

None of them are white.

I'd suggest BAME women are over represented actually. Impending my experience they take a dim view of other people appropriating their struggles.

KingdomScrolls · 24/07/2021 19:36

No it's not but IME other groups of women have more on their plate so it's not in the foreground for them

BloomingTrees · 24/07/2021 19:36

Transman not transparent

BloomingTrees · 24/07/2021 19:36

It sounds like he brought up race and class to avoid answering your awkward questions which he couldn't answer.

Would he consider dating a transparent?

TooWicked · 24/07/2021 19:36

In my own experience, most of the white middle class women that I know are either completely oblivious to any of this, or if they are aware they are in the TWAW brigade.

Shedbuilder · 24/07/2021 19:35

No, loads of gay men and lesbians and people from all walks of life are GC. Marian Miller and her Scottish witches friends describe themselves as working class women.

Try Mr Menno:

www.facebook.com/mrmenno/

or Arty Morty

www.youtube.com/c/artymorty

They are both gay men who see how mad this is. Suggest he checks them out. They may make him think differently.

JackGrealishsShorts · 24/07/2021 19:35

Your friend is wrong and a total arse.

Rummikub · 24/07/2021 19:34

No it’s not only white middle class women who are GC.

dyslek · 24/07/2021 19:32

I believe it has been established on these boards that white middle class women are over represented in the twaw brigade.
Black and working class women are less invested in this nonesense.
Your friend is talking out of his arse, I would have to reassess the friendship, sorry.