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Original poster

Is it only white middle class women who are GC?

643 replies

Ziegfeld · 24/07/2021 19:27

I recently summoned courage to have “the talk” with an old friend who is gay. I wanted to know his current thoughts on sex based rights, and I thought (as we are old friends) even if we disagreed we could have a civilised conversation about it.

Unfortunately I think he called me transphobic about five minutes into the conversation when I asked, so if we say let’s have self ID, how do we tell whether someone genuinely believes themselves to be a TW or is a man simply announcing he is a woman solely for the purposes of accessing women-only spaces for bad intent. ( His answers to that were “well we need safeguarding” and “there are hardly any TWs, this isn’t a real concern” and “well ideally we should all just have gender neutral changing rooms”)

Some more things were said by both of us which I won’t go into here because I am sure we’ve all heard them before.

But then he said that it’s only white middle class women (like me) who have a problem with self ID and allowing TW access to women’s spaces. He said that working class women and women of colour have no problem at all with it.

I don’t think this is true - look at Allison Bailey for example. But I would be interested to know what other MNers think. Is this a race and class issue? Or is it that white middle class women tend to have more platforms to speak out than other women?

OP posts:
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RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/08/2021 22:37

I think OP specifically stated biological women mastubating in toilets 🤮

Really?

I have a lovely dh but hes honestly convinced that at any given moment a group of female friends will strip to there undies and have a pillow fight…ive tried to disabuse of that notion but to no avail

Do you think its a similar thing with the OP?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/08/2021 22:35

keepem

Its almost if the poster thought we’d forget about any actual facts and just believe anything they said

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 22:34

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

Was there ever evidence for hordes of women beating transgender people up?
I think OP specifically stated biological women mastubating in toilets 🤮
Keepemguessing · 01/08/2021 22:33

No. I'm utterly shocked.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/08/2021 22:30

Was there ever evidence for hordes of women beating transgender people up?

Keepemguessing · 01/08/2021 21:37

*care

Keepemguessing · 01/08/2021 21:37

I don't call if every TW in the world is lovely.

I still don't want to share female facilities - including but not limited to toilets - with male bodied people.

We said NO. This isn't a negotiation.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 31/07/2021 23:24

Many years ago I worked in acute mental health services. The presentation and diagnosis of males and females was very different. We worked with some very disturbed men. Cross dressing was a feature in more than 50% of them
This isn't talked about anymore

TheWeeDonkey · 31/07/2021 19:09

I don't know why but every time I hear about gangs of women beaing up transwomen in toilets I get an image of West Side Story in my mind, that and the fight scene in Anchorman

CharlieParley · 31/07/2021 19:06

I think some common sense and realism needs urgently to be injected into this (largely non-) issue. We're being asked to think of a predatory sort of man deliberately dressing up in women's clothing, with a wig and some make up too, presumably, for some reason believing that a women's toilet is the best place to target women. Really, think of that: predatory sorts of men are generally the sorts who won't even wear pink tee shirts for the 'shame of it'.

What is it with people pronouncing with absolute certainty absolute nonsense?

Transvestism is the number one paraphilia amongst murderers, rapists and pedophiles. This idea that such predators must be macho men who wouldn't be seen dead in anything feminine flies in the face of all available evidence from history, criminology, psychology and, of course, our courts.

Common sense tells us that male predators go to great length to gain access to victims, training for many years to become doctors, joining the priesthood, volunteering all their time at the Scouts for example.

Common sense tells us that removing safeguards, like the social taboo surrounding males over ten in female toilets or changing rooms, enables predators and gives them more opportunities to offend at less risk of repercussions if their presence is detected prior to committing an offence.

Common sense tells us that we make safeguarding laws imagining the worst of all things happening, thinking of the worst of people taking advantage whenever and wherever they can. If we only ever assumed the best in people we wouldn't have bothered putting any laws into place regarding murder or robberies.

Thankfully as a society we don't pretend that predators exist only in the feverdreams of the overly dramatic or the hateful imaginations of bigots. Decent people continue to support safeguarding laws that govern all of us.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2021 18:22

As well the lack of logic and the complete lack of understanding that females use the toilets for much more than ‘just wanting to pee’ and the constant reduction of this is just more distraction. Because it is NOT just about safety it is also about complete privacy to do these tasks without males being present. The type of task that no male will need to contemplate, and some that they are hugely less likely to do if they are in the female toilets. I will not go through them, we have threads and threads discussing them.

But crack on with your unevidenced claims that more females best up males who are using the female toilets with such regularity.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2021 18:14

May I suggest you give your skills at interpreting an overhaul?

Well, actually I have just looked back at the pics I took of your posts and if you think it is my interpretation skills that need an overhaul, you are greatly overstating the coherence and consistency of your posts.

ScreamingMeMe · 31/07/2021 15:20

Oh come on guys, one disapproving tuttand the nefarious men will vapourise. A man who felt the need to beat a fox to death with a baseball bat said so.

Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 14:51

www.google.com/amp/s/poptopic.com.au/article/melbourne-girl-11-sexually-abused-in-public-toilet-by-trans-woman/%3famp

I could continue, I really could.

Transwomen offend at the same rate as all men do.

Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 14:22

I agree that transwomen deserve safety and dignity. I agree that they deal with abuse to a high extent and are at risk from men. I agree that they deserve their own unique safespaces.

What I do not agree, is that this should impact on women's safe spaces to any extent.

Women have always been at risk from men. More than 20% of us have been assaulted by men. Transwomen are men by sex. They offend at the same rate.

Women are not being unreasonable. Men are, by pushing forcibly to place women at increased risk.

KittenKong · 31/07/2021 12:56

You only need to raise an eyebrow or NOT give a huge grin of solidarity...

334bu · 31/07/2021 12:54

Depending on your viewpoint" Hey son you're in the wrong changing room/toilet" is tantamount to GBH.

KittenKong · 31/07/2021 12:06

Plus what constitutes assault - crimes can be pretty ‘open to interpretation’ these days. Could be a punch to the head or calling them a ‘wrong’ name or word.

Deliriumoftheendless · 31/07/2021 11:34

I’m sure one of our chums can do the digging to educate us. Yeah?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2021 11:28

And I do recall reading a report that the alleged victim in that case was later arrested for assault himself.

Sexual assault. It was posted on Twitter the other day, I wish I had bookmarked as I also can't find it.

NecessaryScene · 31/07/2021 11:21

I know there was one incident in the US where 2 women were charged with assaulting a transwoman in a female toilet.

Last time I checked I failed to find any reports on sentencing, despite the initial charges being relatively widely reported, leading me to assume they were acquitted.

And I do recall reading a report that the alleged victim in that case was later arrested for assault himself. (Imagine my shock). But unfortunately I've failed to find that report either - I've lost his name, and it wasn't included in the reports of the original charges.

Maybe someone with better digging skills than me could find it. It would be useful to have concrete information that the one documented set of charges were false and originating from someone themselves guilty of assault.

Oh, there was also that time Yaniv accused Amy Hamm of something in a toilet. That (obviously) went nowhere, but he enjoyed himself at least.

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