Is it only white middle class women who are GC?

Oh, and fourthly, it stops the conversation turning to all the other issues that hellofabore mentioned to indeedy earlier.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find this obsession with toilets more than a little bit creepy.

There's a couple or more answers to that.

Firstly, it allows the poster to say pee and poop repeatedly. (Poop is such an infantile word.)

Secondly, it takes the thread away from the main focus.

Thirdly, the implication is that women are making a big fuss about nothing. That we are the ones obsessed because it's no big deal because a) men have always accessed it and b) what you're going to do, a genital inspection? The poster and other people on the right side of history like to belittle women and our concerns as being just about denying TW the right to pee and "poop". That we are the unreasonable ones.

Thank you @Helleofabore

Interesting isn't it, how many of these male activists are prepared to break the law if they think they will get away with it. What other laws do they break I wonder.

Yes, Jorrris. That is exactly the point that indeedy and others who keep bringing up the 'genital inspectors' miss.

Do tell us @Yesindeedydoodey. If those males cannot be trusted to follow the laws and any rules they disagree with, why should they be allowed to access single sex spaces again?

Why do you feel they should be given any special consideration in the safeguarding processes needed to protect women and children again?

Do you really not understand what you are advocating for? or are you simply so entrenched in repeating the lines fed to you from twitter that you cannot think critically for yourself?

GC is the abbreviation of Gender Critical.

I don't use it myself but it is used to denote a group of people who believe that sex cannot change, ever. But people can present how ever they like and if they want to call that 'gender' then that is fine. However, in some things sex matters. Particularly in regards to women's rights set aside to assist females to address the millennia of sexist discrimination experienced because of our female bodies.

All trans people need and deserve their own rights to fit their unique purpose.

Interesting isn't it, how many of these male activists are prepared to break the law if they think they will get away with it. What other laws do they break I wonder.

What on earth is GC? Gender?

And then there's the question of how, exactly, we're to police any law prohibiting those without the 'correct tackle downstairs' going into the 'wrong toilet'. I mean, really, how would that work? Would you have a large, strong (and possibly quite manly-looking) female security guard posted outside every women's toilet? What would she do - demand of every blokey-looking woman that she drop her knickers as proof?

OK, so what about identity cards, that show that you were born female or male? Really, you want the State forcing everyone to carry identity cards, for the sole purpose of proving who is and isn't female for twhen it comes to using public toilets?

This stuff is ludicrous.

Do you not understand how transphobic you assertion is that males who identify as women will simply ignore laws, show complete disrespect for the sex they identify as being part of, by continuing to use single sex spaces set aside for females?

In the past, it was actually mostly societal pressure that kept males out of the female facilities.

This stuff is ludicrous.

yes, and the only people proposing it is trans activists. You all use this, and it is tired old trope now, as a 'gotcha'. But it is no gotcha and you are transphobic in suggesting such a thing.

Please do tell us by what right do you speak for trans people @Yesindeedydoodey. Who nominated you to do so. And how are you representative of trans people?

Yes to those supporting women. It's mums net.
Meanwhile, at least one woman in prison in California is pregnant by a male masquerading as a women to get into the chicken coop. This is why women's spaces matter. Women, even U.S. prisoners matter too.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find this obsession with toilets more than a little bit creepy.

Transwoman may suffer abuse in the gents as may small men, BAME men , gay men, disabled men

let them all in the ladies ?

What about Kevin who was once randomly attacked?

Snd Kevin's mate who is scared because Kevin was attacked

And the mate of the mate of kevin

Alternatively, we could think about how society needs to change so that beating up any body is not normal

And some unisex cubicles

The toilet issue has become your focus here.

How surprising.

If your son were to become a woman - a transwoman, man-pretending-to-be-a-woman, whatever label you choose to use - what would you say? Would you say to her - him, if you prefer - 'Continue to use the men's toilets, because you're not female, and if you keep getting beaten up in men's toilets, that's your problem?' God help you, if so, because, in my view, you don't deserve to be a parent and don't deserve that child.

You constantly have to resort to hyperbole don't you Indeedy.

We know that there are males who identify as women who use the male toilets. They tell us. Thank you, though, for highlighting the true 'villains' (hyperbole from me there) which are the MALES beating up other males for whatever reason.

The toilet issue has become your focus here.

What about

• Males who are competing in female sports events? Do you think that is fair?
• Recently transitioned males in Women's Officer roles where they have influence over the lives of females through involvement in policy setting, and other more direct actions. You are very comfortable with that?
• Traumatised females having the choice of health care provider in rape examinations. Do you think they should?
• Males who have had all the advantages in educational opportunities and career progression (maybe including having the other parent to bring up the kids so they can focus on their career), who now identify as women, collecting awards intended to inspire women in the workplace. You are comfortable with that?

Either way, Indeedy. I would hope that if I had a son, I would have instilled a very high level of respect for women and their needs in him. Enough respect that they would realise that if there was an issue for them to use the male toilets, as is their sex, then they would actively campaign for a solution and not just use the female toilets.

Because Indeedy, that is parenting. Teaching respect for all. Making sure that your changed needs are met, not by them impinging on others needs, but by being met with solutions that work for others as well as you. I would also hope that any child of mine, would have had the mental health support to cope with acknowledging their reality and living with the fact that sex matters sometimes.

That is also maturity.

The reasons why will become perfectly obvious, the moment you can get past your own selfish concerns and put yourself in their position. They'll want to use the toilets to pee or poop, or changing rooms to get changed, and that is that. They'll have had all too many miseries in their lives to want to hassle ciswomen in any way at all

So, indeedy, I'll ask again. I am coming back to your earlier post.

Is it acceptable for a male to expose their penis to a six or nine year old girl less than a metre away in a hot tub in the naked female section of a spa? Is it then acceptable for that male to get into the hot tub with a naked child?

What about if that male’s penis is semi erect?

Is that ok? Because this is what you are saying is ok by your assertion. And by the way. It happened - twice (well the first time was a six year old girl and the penis wasn't semi erect but still a male exposed their penis at eye level less than a metre from the face of a six year old.) And you are proud to support that it seems.

Also, your comment shows just how little you actually know about most female toilet experiences. It shows your complete ignorance and your misogyny. Females don't just use toilets for pee or poop. Far from it. Which is why females don't just need safety, they also need privacy and dignity away from the male, ANY MALE, gaze.

Jeez. This all boils down to: Just get real and stop being such utter, flimsy, squealing snowflakes.

You really get infuriated when women say no to you, don't you?

1. He's wrong. IME most working class women can see through artifice and bullshit so effortlessly, they wouldn't give its discussion house room.

2. 'Only ... think that' is just a lazy dismissal that says 'I have no decent arguments against this position, so will attempt to dismiss it ad hominem'. I've experienced 'only feminists think that' / 'that's the sort of thing feminists say', more than enough times to know this.

Always enlightening when gender ideologues confirm how misogynistic, homophobic and racist they are.

They can go ahead and be goady as they like as it all shines a light. I don't think the goady dudes understand that. Also, the women on here have seen it all before and are pretty professional by now at highlighting flaws in the arguments.

Indeed. Sunlight shows up all the dark corners, there's nowhere to hide.

Spectacular empathy fail from @NannyOggsWhiskyStash, but yet another live demonstration to readers of the very bias of trans activists who will prioritise empathy for transwomen above women who just posted a reaction to another trans activist who a few posts before told women that males who identify as women simply will never stop using same sex spaces because they will never respect females.

So, a woman, a horrific rape survivor responding to being told effectively that their needs are never going to be considered important and that their future public life will be limited because of this, reacts and gets told by @NannyOggsWhiskyStash, who has positioned themselves as another trans activist, that women discussing their needs are transphobic and the priority should again be the transwomen.

We know that not all trans people are like this and are also harmed by supposed allies pushing their own agendas.

How much more evidence do we need to see that there are some very morally corrupt people appointing themselves as spokespeople for trans people? This weekend has been particularly illustrative

Thank you @Yesindeedydoodey for continuing to 'educate' everyone with your many educationally bereft posts and thank you Nanny for your illustrative contribution. Well done to you both!

And Nanny, your son must be so, so proud of you today. Was he also on MN FWR this weekend educating us???

Chickeny

After the Jim Crow laws were wiped out out in the USA, white women had to overcome their horror at black women coming into women's toilets. They've also had to get used to lesbians coming into their toilets. I think this is the next step.

I cannot believe that someone posted this trope. They are equating black women and lesbians with what? Males. How casually disrespectful to appropriate experiences of those women. Certainly when it is not for the benefit of black women or lesbians. Or even women who are both black and lesbian.

No, thank you.

On that subject, I've just remembered this news report from 2013.

article

Charges were filed Tuesday against a man who wore a wig and women's clothing to disguise himself as he allegedly used a concealed camera to record "hours" of video of women in a Los Angeles-area department store restroom.

Jason Pomare, 33, of Palmdale, was arrested Saturday after customers contacted security officers at a Macy's store to report a man in the women's restroom. The security officers contacted a deputy, who was on patrol at the Antelope Valley Mall (map) when he saw a man matching the subject's description leave the store.

When the deputy found the man hiding in a mall storage area, the subject was wearing a wig, women's clothing and bra, according to a statement from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

"The deputy noticed he was wearing a wig and appeared to have breasts," said Sgt. Brian Hudson, of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

Pomare (pictured, right) was charged Tuesday with six counts of unlawful use of a concealed camera for purposes of sexual gratification. After his arrest, investigators said a video camera found in his purse had "hours" of video of women using the restroom inside the store.

The suspect pointed the concealed camera under restroom stalls, but one woman recognized the camera's red recording light and contacted security officers, investigators said. Pomare told detectives he had been in the restroom for about two hours, said Hudson.

Continues: www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/secret-recording-store-mall-antelope-valley-palmdale-restroom/2061060/

I wonder how many women spotted his maleness before that one woman spotted the camera's recording light, but thought they had no right to object in case he was trans.

"Why would they go to the trouble of dressing like women and going into a women's toilet to do that?"
You'll know that many women wear jeans and t-shirt, but assuming you mean something more "feminine", they don't need to go to that trouble. All self id requires is for any man to just say they're a woman. And, presto, they have a right to be there.

@Chickenyhead Here with you.

Chickeny, sending you lots of sympathy.