Just had some interesting conversations with some local election canvassers

We have a group within the Lib Dems called Liberal Voice for Women

Good to know, thanks. It's great that the three main parties all have groups supporting woman's rights.

I was called the other day to ask if I would canvas for a local Labour candidate. I didn't have the time or energy for a debate so I just said I supported the Labour Woman's Declaration, didn't feel I could vote Labour myself at the moment, so wouldn't be doing any canvassing.

I think I'll use the same approach if we get canvassers at the door - "I support the views of Liberal Voice for Women/Labour Woman's Declaration/Conservative Women's Pledge. What's your candidate's position"?

That link was a collection of all the shite on Twitter, Scientific American article included. It also mimicked Twitter by using people with DSDs and for personal reasons that really, really pisses me off 😡

It also completely misrepresents and misunderstands the GC position. It’s like misunderstanding atheism and trying to lecture someone about how they must have a god just not the Christian one, but obviously we all have a god blah blah. 🙄 Totally patronising and idiotic. That’s what their rubbish about ‘the most common gender identity associated with your sex’ is.

That link gave me the rage.

Yep - me too. I can hardly believe what I have just read. We are all just nasty transphobes. - and a bit thick apparently.

'when perhaps Rowling simply needed to learn more about these issues'.

I wouldn't even know who to vote for in an election anymore.

That's great OP, I'm glad you feel better. Sometimes it's nice to have a proper conversation and not feel like you're banging your head against the wall!

I would say it is difficult to be a member of a party and not tow the party line. Unfortunately, they may not be willing/able to communicate upwards in case they are punished from within the party. But the more they hear about how people really feel about this, the better.

And yes, KS is a disaster. His arse must be sore from all the fence sitting. He seems to think that just because he is not Boris Johnson that's good enough, he doesn't need to actually do anything of merit .

That link gave me the rage.

Me too. What a load of waffley nonsense. And the 'scientific' link they included was not a peer reviewed article, but another load of waffley nonsense by another self righteous individual.

Well done OP, it is hard to confront this in real life. Many of us do not like confrontation, and don't like to be told we are hateful or bigoted for believing in biological reality. Good on your for holding your own. The more people speak up about this the better.

That debunking page is so flawed there’s no point arguing with anyone that would use it

What on earth is the ‘debunking’ list all about?

Sex IS unchangeable.

No it's not like sexuality, being straight is clearly a sexuality. To have no sexuality would to be asexual.

I choose to not define my gender in their terms because I don't believe the concept of gender identity is useful. I do not have a female essence separate from my physical experience and socialisation. I definitely don't feel comfortable with sex stereotypes.

They can sod off with calling us cis.

Wow, just looked at one debunked transphobic question:

"I'm not cis because I don't have a gender identity, only sex."

Much like saying "I don't have a sexuality, I'm just straight", this confuses having the most common gender identity for someone of a particular birth sex with having no gender identity at all. Perceiving that one's gender doesn't exist separately from one's sex is simply a way of describing one's perception of being cis.

How utterly disrespectful of others experience.

The first supposed ‘debunking’ is ”Trans rights are a threat to women's rights." (Answer:) Trans women are women, and suffer many of the same oppressions cis women do.

With this level of argument, you hardly need to read on! Just repeat the holy mantra TWAW.

The Liberal Party used to be a serious and ethical political force. But that was a long time ago.

I did this last time and gave each canvasser one of Fair Play For Women leaflets to take away asking them to read it and email me with any thoughts. I got some interesting feedback so it was definitely worth doing.

Yay! Once you're done it and survived, it will get easier and less intimidating.

LibDem response is interesting. Offered "men getting into women's spaces" she went straight to TWAW. So not sure that TWAW (or else why think of them when someone said "men"?) but also accepting that sex-segregated spaces are needed, but that transwomen should be in the womens' (rather than that everything should be mixed sex). A position at odds with their stand on self-ID, I think.

Not sure about the UK as a whole, but the LibDems in Scotland train their supporters on how to handle the pesky feminists. See their "Debunking transphobic talking points": lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/page/debunking-transphobic-talking-points-longer-version. When anything about women's rights comes up, there's no room to consider what's actually being said; it's automatically transphobic and you have to shut it down. Which of course is both misogynist (and therefore bigoted) and hypocritical. And unproductive: you assume I'm a transphobe because I said a buzzword, I assume you're a misogynist for automatically dismissing the idea that women have legitimate opinions about their lives. Gets us nowhere. Also the LibDems are big on the idea that there's just a few people with multiple sock accounts orchestrating all the nonsense about women's rights "transphobia", so good that this person now knows and may report that one more "real life" person considers it very important.

Thanks, mumofmartha, for pointing out Liberal Voice for Women. Never heard of it and it sounds interesting; will take a look.

I challenged a Libdem canvasser during the last election about women's safety and rights. I said I couldn't vote for them because of their position on this. She engaged very well and said she basically agreed with me but felt the Libdems were the best choice on other matters and they needed to deal better with this issue. All very polite but direct. No doubt it's got worse since then and she might not feel able to say what she did now

I'm a Lib Dem and a feminist. I refuse to defend the party position on women's rights. The app mentioned is called Minivan and collates all the doorstep data from those we canvass. We have a group within the Lib Dems called Liberal Voice for Women and we're using it to provide the counter argument in support of protecting children and safeguarding women's rights. The party mantra that TWAW and the bullying of those who disagree is the most illiberal position a party named Liberal could ever take. Keep arguing with those doorstep canvassers, at some point the party will have to sit up and take notice.

You did really well! Talking face to face is quite difficult and intimidating but you did it any way. And you didn't let the reaction of the Lib Dem canvasser stop you from also engaging with the Tory one. Sounds like you actually made a difference in getting the guy to think about it and go away to find out more. That's the best anyone can hope for really, as the rest is up to them.

Well done.

As a Lib Dem member, I really appreciate you challenging that canvasser. You may well have sowed a seed of doubt so don't be discouraged by the apparently dogmatic mouthing of the current party line. Thanks you.

The only way for all parties to realise that women take their rights seriously is to ask the question on the doorstep.
They need to listen and the Lib Dem’s in particular. They seem to be wrapped up the most in the TWAW mantra.
Well done for asking the difficult question.
The Lib Dem’s have an app they use to register what voters are interested in. Make sure you make them put it in the app!

Well done OP, as pp said it sounds like you got through to the second guy.