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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Phillip Pullman

235 replies

Dollpiglet · 21/07/2021 07:19

I'm not a huge user of Twitter but I do follow Phillip Pullman who seems to have stepped out on this issue now. I'm gutted!

twitter.com/PhilipPullman/status/1417467807873241088?s=19

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8
RoyalCorgi · 22/07/2021 14:04

@AmericanSlang

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.
That's very funny. It shows he has really only listened to one side of the debate. He's not the only one, of course.
AmericanSlang · 22/07/2021 13:53

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.

cocoapopfan · 22/07/2021 13:33

I'd still expect him to do so politely though - is the issue less that he didn't sign and more that he took off on the petitioner?

Oh, I'm not defending his response at all. I think she had every right to ask.

LastSummerHere · 22/07/2021 12:34

@RoyalCorgi

The most illuminating thing about this whole debate is that it has revealed the number of men who hold women in utter contempt - yes, women are fine in their place, as long as they don't think they can say no to men. It turns out that it's not just the extreme MRAs who hate women who stand up for themselves, but lots of men you previously might have thought were progressive or liberal.

It has had the effect of making me feel particularly grateful to those few men who have dared to stand up for women. It's a bit sad, really, when you feel so much gratitude to someone just for meeting the absolute minimum standards of human decency.

Yes, it's quite something when we feel grateful to the men who treat us like the human beings we are.

Freespeecher · 22/07/2021 12:24

Regarding the whole petition thing, I'm fine with people asking me to sign various petitions on various things but would think it perfectly reasonable if Pullman (or anyone else) kicked back against people coming back on multiple occasions demanding they sign or wanting to know why they didn't sign such-and-such a petition. Seem to remember the Graun staff having a petition on some contentious issue and non-signers having to answer for themselves which is not how it's supposed to be (imho).

I'd still expect him to do so politely though - is the issue less that he didn't sign and more that he took off on the petitioner?

cocoapopfan · 22/07/2021 11:42

I suspect the way Pullman sees this is that he stepped up and condemned the abuse of JKR as Nick Cohen (a male journalist) was challenging blue ticks to do. But instead of everyone falling over with gratitude, people started reminding him of his history on this and that pesky Jane Harris challenged him to sign a petition.

So he dashes off a pompous and tetchy response.

It’s a shame if it makes him dig down because I think lots of people do admire him. I’d guess though the penny is dropping and he’s realising that the lovely people in his tribe telling him who the “bigots” are maybe aren’t as reliable as he’d assumed.

I’ve been reading Helen Joyce’s book and it actually mentions Rachel Rooney and quotes Clara Vulliamy.

Shedbuilder · 22/07/2021 11:12

Yes, RoyalCorgi. Never before in my life has the fact that so many apparently intelligent, educated, sensitive men think of women as irrelevant, second-rate not-men whose ideas and existence aren't important or interesting.

Philip Pullman reminds me of a former boss who was an out-and-out misogynist. When I left I told him what I thought of him and his response was 'I don't hate women, I'm married to one'. Poor woman.

RoyalCorgi · 22/07/2021 11:02

The most illuminating thing about this whole debate is that it has revealed the number of men who hold women in utter contempt - yes, women are fine in their place, as long as they don't think they can say no to men. It turns out that it's not just the extreme MRAs who hate women who stand up for themselves, but lots of men you previously might have thought were progressive or liberal.

It has had the effect of making me feel particularly grateful to those few men who have dared to stand up for women. It's a bit sad, really, when you feel so much gratitude to someone just for meeting the absolute minimum standards of human decency.

merrymouse · 22/07/2021 09:34

I agree with oldcrone.

It’s also not as though his behaviour stands out. Men aren’t exactly jumping over each other to defend JKR, given the number whose careers have benefitted from her work.

FightingtheFoo · 22/07/2021 09:28

@sashagabadon

I also think in the literature world there is a lot of jealousy generally between authors but specifically directed at authors that do very very well. There is a TV show about his triology now but prior to that there was a stage show which by all accounts was good but didn’t last that long and a Hollywood film that flopped. Compare that to Harry Potter world and no comparison
100% this
NiceGerbil · 22/07/2021 03:47

Lol

Single vision terrible

Next tweet

Stop putting views forward I don't agree with!

AnotherLass · 22/07/2021 03:42

I think he's an insufferable pompous ass, and he's deliberately trying to wind up feminists. But I also think that when people behave really badly on this issue, it is often that there is a personal connection. The Clara Vullliamy trans kid link makes sense, or maybe there's someone in his own family. The pressure of having a fanatic in the family who will not suffer dissent really breaks people. And then the anger and guilt come out in sorts of unsavoury ways.

OldCrone · 21/07/2021 21:49

I wonder if resentment hasn't brewed and boiled over over the years - after all, they both emerged at a similar time in the 90s, and arguably, HDM is a much more accomplished body of work. JKR is credited as the woman who got the young reading again. PP's ego probably found that a bit galling.

I don't think this is anything to do with JKR.

Philip Pullman is a great admirer of Clara Vulliamy's mother, Shirley Hughes, who he refers to as a 'national treasure'. Clara Vullliamy has a transgender child. Criticising anything to do with transgenderism could be construed as personal criticism of Clara Vulliamy's child or of her parenting. If he is a personal friend of Shirley Hughes (rather than just an admirer) and/or Clara Vulliamy he is in a difficult position.

As I said in the other thread I linked to earlier, this is why transgender children are so important to TRAs. It's hard to criticise an ideology which has captured young, vulnerable people when that criticism will be seen as criticism of the young people themselves. It's often impossible to discuss this rationally with their parents and other close relatives.

sashagabadon · 21/07/2021 21:17

He seems to have Boris derangement syndrome like quite a few others.

KimikosNightmare · 21/07/2021 21:12

Whether or not it’s nonsense (seems very unlikely that Johnson would have a plan for anything), he’s quite happy to express a forthright and controversial opinion if there is no social cost within his circle

Indeed- there was a particularly nonsensical one about Flower of Scotland and "English cheating"

KimikosNightmare · 21/07/2021 21:10

Philip Pullman

@PhilipPullman

·

Apr 21

Tried to watch 'Promising Young Woman' but found it impossible. The music was so loud I couldn't hear any dialogue, and when I did I couldn't understand it. Silence and subtitles, please, and I'll be glad to watch it

And this pearl of wisdom too.

I was so bored with The Secret Commonwealth I really don't care what happens next.

merrymouse · 21/07/2021 21:03

Just spotted this nonsense as well.

Whether or not it’s nonsense (seems very unlikely that Johnson would have a plan for anything), he’s quite happy to express a forthright and controversial opinion if there is no social cost within his circle.

KimikosNightmare · 21/07/2021 20:56

Philip Pullman

@PhilipPullman

·
Jul 12

Saying this as clearly as I can: Boris Johnson is removing the Covid restrictions because he WANTS the NHS to collapse, so that he has a political excuse for privatising it. Nothing else, not even stupidity, can explain what's going on

Just spotted this nonsense as well.

TrainedByCats · 21/07/2021 17:30

[quote nauticant]Here's his standard operating procedure: he tweets something that stirs up anger against a woman, he gets pushback, and then scuttles away saying he's just an old bloke for whom it's too complicated or assumes victim status for himself. An unpleasant way to engage with this issue.

twitter.com/PhilipPullman/status/1270105447924727808[/quote]
He is a massive disappointment, tbh I think he makes the situation worse. I’ve seen PP operate like this regularly, I think I have him muted now he's so annoying

TedImgoingmad · 21/07/2021 16:25

I think it's professional jealousy coupled with lack of principle.

His Dark Materials books are beloved, as is he as an author, but on a vastly smaller scale to that which JKR's Harry Potter world has been. HP /JKR are revered and celebrated, to the extent that some people can't see the line between their own reality and the fantasy. I've never seen anything like that behaviour about HDM.

I wonder if resentment hasn't brewed and boiled over over the years - after all, they both emerged at a similar time in the 90s, and arguably, HDM is a much more accomplished body of work. JKR is credited as the woman who got the young reading again. PP's ego probably found that a bit galling.

Now, the same people who fantasise about being in the HP world are hurting (self inflicted, because they have believed lies about JKR, but hurting none the less) and PP is cynically rubbing salt into the wounds by continuing to insert himself into a matter he claims he doesn't understand. Perhaps he is desperately hoping JKR will suffer a massive downfall, and that the annals of literary history will hold his own books up as the definitive reading of the 1990s, with a revisionist history as to whom the resurgence of the love of reading fantasy genre novels should be attributed. Perhaps he is hoping to convert her readership and boost his own sales. Who knows? He certainly seems to have taken on the role of agent provocateur in this, as opposed to Stephen King's who just flip flopped around and ultimately didn't want to be the "bad guy".

"The Golden Compass" film flopped because it was not true to the book (and the sequels were canned). It contained none of the critique of religion that was so central to His Dark Materials. Pullman's quotations from the time of production seem to indicate he agreed with and justified all the liberties taken with the original story, including making Mrs Coulter blonde (he said at the time that it made perfect sense and Mrs C should have been blonde in the books too - yet she was back to being dark haired in the TV adaption without comment from Pullman). What principled author, allows their work of genius to be butchered so? JKR, by contrast, seems to have kept the world she created on a fairly tight leash, working on the script adaptions to keep them true to the original stories, and being determined not to lose her characters to the Hollywood machine. And she still has Hollywood at her feet begging for more. Savvy as well as principled, talented, gracious, generous, kind and funny.

JKR must boil PP's piss on a daily basis.

Slythermum · 21/07/2021 15:32

Some authors are as brave as the characters they write about.
Others are as cowardly as the ones they write about.

Does he believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with Lyra or girls the same age as her?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/07/2021 15:32

Massively off-topic but that link says there is no spousal exit clause in Scotland - is that correct?

OldCrone · 21/07/2021 15:28

Clara Vulliamy has a trans child. Pullman appears to be a friend of hers who just agrees with anything she says on this matter without giving it any thought.

The effects of the recruitment of 'trans children' by TRAs was discussed on a previous thread about Rachel Rooney, Clara Vulliamy and Philip Pullman:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4099490-Rachel-Rooney-criticised-by-Philip-Pulman?pg=1

Abhannmor · 21/07/2021 15:23

Yes , leave us our cherished illusions! If he'd kept a lower profile I'd have formed a nicer impression of him

Beowulfa · 21/07/2021 15:08

I preferred the olden days where you might have a couple of lines about the author on the last page ("X studied English at Cambridge and lives in Surrey with two cats") but that was it. No photo, no website, no interviews for a book club, no gobbing-off platforms. Just the text and your interpretation of it.