The Guardian have upped their game, we’re now Anti-trans for asking for same-sex spaces

It's still on their website.

Still wondering if it’s in the paper...may have to buy the rag.

I think it's almost certainly only going to be in the US section of the Guardian website. It seems to have a completely separate editorial team and I don't think the articles are subbed, or even seen, by the UK team.

It might still be worth writing to the readers' editor. Every time they publish something like this they diminish their own brand.

Honestly (after reading Helen Joyce’s book) this is feeling more and more like an actual genuine conspiracy one that conspiracy theorists are missing. Or maybe I’ve lot the plot in the sun.

Interesting that so many TRAs and allies are refusing to believe the incident even happened because nobody videoed it happening. But imagine the questions and furore if they had! Why did you have your phone in your hand in the jacuzzi? Why were you covertly filming a naked person? Why haven't you uploaded the video? How dare you upload that video?! What about the rights of the naked women in the background? Ad nauseam.

And as for "Safeguarding should be inclusive" give me strength. If we check women - and we do - why wouldn't we check transwomen? We check everybody! How's that for inclusive?

Yet in some countries, a person transitioning can have any record in their previous name closed. Now that is scary.

Francis Harris's take was excellent. The piece was not fit for print.

Sorry he corrected himself, it’s the Guardian.

Still wondering if it’s in the paper...may have to buy the rag.

Francis Harris (former editor and director of an Atlanticist think tank) has laid out a cogent critique of this ‘report’ . He refers to it as an Observer piece. Do we know whether this appeared in the Observer yesterday, or in the Guardian today?

Need to know which to write to.

A brief section of the below video is important

Transgender, Gender & Psychoanalysis: Patricia Gherovici, Ph D

The YouTube channel hosting it and the associated websites and actors are fascinating for vrious reasons.

Re the above video, the presenter makes an interesting comment at 1:54 when she says that "the couch is like a window and at times we get to see things happening in society a little before we read about them in the news or we see them on TV"

This comment got me thinking.

I personally belive that various schools of psychotherapy, counselling and psychology have been infiltrated and are being used as forms of social enginering and active measures.

One of the principles of active measures, as defined in the excellent New York Times documentary, is that you hide your hand.

The examples given in the documentary included using newspapers in remote locations, with limited print runs, to break stories that then leak into the global news arena over time.

Obviously with the advent of the Internet the ability to hide one's hand and to spread fake news via social media is increased to a ridiculous degree.

I understand that, in war, opponents seek out obscure languages, including "orphan" languages for the purposes of sending and receiving secret, coded information, the Navajo code talkers being a well known example.

It also seems to me, having studied various schools of psychotherapy, including psychoanaysis, that psychoanalytic theories and narratives and other depth psychology theories are created and maintained by the use of opaque languages and obscure symbolic references, that even a highly intelligent lay person would be unable to understand.

The result of this is that it is impossible for anyone to critique such theories if they have no idea of the meaning of them.

I believe the same is true for some schools of philosophy, especially postmodernism.

My provisional hypothesis is that psychotherapy and the mental health professions generally are theatres in which social engineering via active measures are being implemented. They are effectively hidden hands, with many useful idiots thrown in for good measure.

Same with postmodern studies / queer theory, in fact this was brilliantly exposed by the Grievance Studies prank by helen Pluckrose et al.

I have some material to validate this hypothesis.

I have to go out soon but will post more thoughts later.

just another video from the same YouTube channel that readers may find interesting.

[quote MellieBellie]This story doesn't seem like it will go away anytime soon. There's so many competing narratives. Yesterday, Patricia Arquette tweeted an article from Slate about it being a hoax and in the replies there is a guy saying he witnessed the confrontation in reception. He's posted a video too.

twitter.com/bennetkelley/status/1416561456741421056?s=19[/quote]
Bennet Kelley also is an award winning political columnist, radio host, internet lawyer

twitter.com/bennetkelley

You are very welcome EmbarrassingAdmissions

Some further videos of possible interest and definite relevance

Operation InfeKtion: How Russia Perfected the Art of War | NYT Opinion

Soviet Active Measures (1984)

Active Measures: The Kremlin Plan to Beat the West without Firing a Shot

I believe that the violent protests are examples of “active measures”, as explained beautifully in this short video, part of a highly recommended longer video titled Operation Infektion, which can be viewed in its entirety on youtube.

I knew you'd have useful insights into what is happening. Thank you.

I'll watch that item.

apologies, "special measures" in the last paragraph should read "active measures"

I belive that it would be extremely helpful for women to educate ourselves about this kind of warfare as we are on the receiving end of it.

As are lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, trans people and intersex people.

The aim of active measures is to get us to fight amongst ourselves and it appears to be working very effectively

I believe that the violent protests are examples of “active measures”, as explained beautifully in this short video, part of a highly recommended longer video titled Operation Infektion, which can be viewed in its entirety on youtube.

What is really shocking to me is that the Graun appears to be part of the active measures.

Their article is gaslighting, provoking and divisive.

If we compare it to the nuanced perspectives in the Fox News piece here
www.foxnews.com/media/lgbtq-community-appalled-after-transgender-exposes-male-genitalia-in-front-of-young-girls-at-la-spa

The divisive nature of the Graun piece becomes much clearer.

Not long ago I paid good money to buy the Gruan. being a Graun reader was part of my identity. Not anymore.

I never thought I would see the day when I would be recommending Fox News over the Graun.

Anyway, divide and conquer is definitely a thing with these protest groups in LA. Organising opposing groups such as far-right Qanon and anti-abortion activists against the extremists within the trans rights movement is textbook special measures.

I can't recall anything about your post that meant it required deletion, GrumpyMiddleAgedWomnn, unless one of the real life examples of venerated occupational groups found to be riddled with child abusers is still considered above reproach on here. It's very relevant, though. People in those roles had to jump through far bigger hoops than claiming to be women on days when it suited them to get access to their preferred victims. It would be culpably naïve to imagine that men with bad intentions and no gender dysphoria whatsoever won't see gender self-identification and the erosion of protection of women's safe spaces and protected categories as something they can use to their own advantage.

What the fuck was that deletion for? I quoted a post about safeguarding, and how it is vital not to have 'sacred castes' who are exempt from suspicion, and that this helped me to understand my outrage at being told by a LibDem that 'there will always be loopholes'. And then made an observation, deeply pertinent in the light of Karen White.

So, let me ever so tactfully rephrase what I went on to say:
If you allow that claiming a trans identity makes someone a member of a sacred caste and thus beyond question, you are opening a massive loophole. This loophole WILL, on past form, be abused by men who wish to have unfettered access to women and children for their own gratification. Indeed, the evidence indicates that it already has been.

I did not say that all people under the trans umbrella are like this (I know that they are not, I know a transwoman who is very respectful). But the evidence does indicate that there are men who identify as trans so that they can get their dicks out in front of women and girls, or assault women in prison.

When one is angry, which I am about this whole issue, one doesn't always feel like pussyfooting around when making a point. Yet one is obliged to.

I suppose I should be flattered that someone cares enough about what I have to say to report it within minutes so early in the morning.

Men in a violent clash with other men is fuck all to do with women.

The end.

Even if the protestors were "far right", would that somehow change the fact that people can't change sex?

Don't right wing women and their children deserve protection too?

The fact that a vanishingly small number of women are ok with cocks out where women and girls are naked. And that is women of all political persuasions.

Is ignored.

Not read the whole thread.

The things I saw of the protest violence looked like standard blokes out for a ruck.

The excuse for the ruck being about one side seeing women as public property and the other side as private property.

I don't think this 'article' was in today's Observer? I wonder if it will be in tomorrow's Guardian print edition.

Allison Bailey has tweeted that "The editors @guardian should hang their heads in shame for this piece of gutter journalism".

Additionally, women and girls who are naked in what they believe to be a female single sex space have not consented to be viewed by members of the opposite sex, regardless of what surgeries they may have had or dysphoria/s they may suffer from.
In some female single sex space there will be women and girls who are naked or semi-dressed. This is not 'parading'.

I highly doubt any trans person who is pre-op would want to parade around naked in a changing room or spa facility where there are other members of the public. What does happen is they use private booths, and that is the norm. If there was/is inappropriate behaviour, the police can step in.

This is a claim that all members of the trans community suffer from gender dysphoria, seek a medical transition and feel bad about their body. This is an outdated view, MishiJDI, as you are well aware. The vast majority of the members of the trans community do not seek to transition medically and the belief that they do is no longer acceptable (so we've been told by the main trans rights organisations and majority of activists).

Being trans has been uncoupled from gender dysphoria, it is now a matter of identity. That may or may not include a desire to change the body. So your bold claim is out of step with the doctrine of gender identity. Which you otherwise adhere to with fervour.