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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner interviews Jess Philips in the Times

132 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/07/2021 09:44

Interesting read:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d8851824-e3c1-11eb-afdb-c7b01afbcfc5?shareToken=aab7b7c1ae6d3cef2a3097ebc6dfec5b

Excerpts:

She says her greatest achievement is “making women as important as bins”. Councils only had only two statutory duties: adult and children’s social services, and refuse collection. The Domestic Abuse Act adds a third: providing women’s refuges.

What surprised her when sitting on the women and equalities committee, which discussed Gender Recognition Act reforms, was the requirement of two years living “in role” as the opposite sex before changing a birth certificate. “How do you live in role as a man? Have I got to use a spanner? No one could answer that. I’ve got short hair. I’m wearing trousers. Like, it’s not an act, is it? You can’t act like a woman, because we’re all different.”

She is aghast that the modern left seeks to legitimise, even idealise, prostitution, which through her long experience in the refuge movement she sees as sexual abuse. She uses the term “prostituted women” rather than the woke euphemism “sex workers”. Moreover, she’s long been concerned about long-standing women’s refuges losing funds in favour of generic services that purport to include everyone. “If you had £1 million for domestic violence services, you’d give £800,000 to a women’s refuge based on need and numbers. Having specialist services for LGBT or male victims of domestic abuse is totally brilliant and legitimate. They’re not the same. They need different services.”

OP posts:
TheNextSteps · 17/07/2021 15:16

People can change their minds. Look at Damian Barr.

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 17/07/2021 15:03

@TinselAngel

I am genuinely mystified as to how any woman can think that Jess Phillips is gender critical. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them.
That was 7 months ago though. I'm wondering if she's had a change of heart.
Floisme · 17/07/2021 14:51

Did she sign that pledge about (from memory) expelling supporters of groups like WPUK from the party, or had she dropped out of the leadership contest by then? That would be a red line for me.

CardinalLolzy · 17/07/2021 14:39

I generally like her and I think her stance here is actually brave, but I think if I pressed her for consistency I might be disappointed. (As illustrated by some of the above posts).

TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 14:21

@TheLeadbetterLife

Jess Phillips is great. I’m 100% sure she is gender critical, but she is also - wisely - very good at realpolitik, because she likes to get stuff done.

Some people need to do the activism and have the ideological arguments, others need to work on policy, which sometimes involves a bit of compromise on ideology. If this seems like speaking out of both sides of her mouth to some people, so be it. Her achievements speak for themselves.

Ideology is all well and good, but corbyn was an ideologue and achieved bugger all (except almost destroying the Labour Party).

So for example, part of her "real politik" is giving away trans widows rights whilst purporting to be an advocate for abused women? Really?
TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 14:16

I am genuinely mystified as to how any woman can think that Jess Phillips is gender critical. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them.

Janice Turner interviews Jess Philips in the Times
RoyalCorgi · 17/07/2021 14:15

I don't think she really gets it. There's that bit in the interview where she talks about meeting a trans woman who really wishes they could have periods. She doesn't grasp the fetishisation of womanhood that's going on there.

Floisme · 17/07/2021 14:07

I also think Phillips will have realised that simply agreeing to be interviewed by Janice Turner would be seen in some quarters as a signal. My guess is that it was a considered and deliberate choice - she must surely have known Janice would raise the issue. I'm taking it as a sign of progress.

somethinginoffensive · 17/07/2021 14:04

Where I do criticise her is over her silence (as far as I'm aware) over the bullying of Rosie Duffield.

Kier Starmer has behaved shamefully by just ignoring that bullying. That misogynistic bullying is acceptable in the Labour Party is his fault.

TheLeadbetterLife · 17/07/2021 14:01

Jess Phillips is great. I’m 100% sure she is gender critical, but she is also - wisely - very good at realpolitik, because she likes to get stuff done.

Some people need to do the activism and have the ideological arguments, others need to work on policy, which sometimes involves a bit of compromise on ideology. If this seems like speaking out of both sides of her mouth to some people, so be it. Her achievements speak for themselves.

Ideology is all well and good, but corbyn was an ideologue and achieved bugger all (except almost destroying the Labour Party).

merrymouse · 17/07/2021 13:58

“she is very focused on creating specific legislation on things like domestic violence.”

merrymouse · 17/07/2021 13:57

Where I do criticise her is over her silence (as far as I'm aware) over the bullying of Rosie Duffield.

Agree

merrymouse · 17/07/2021 13:56

If Jess is now prepared to acknowledge the reality of women's bodies, lives and experiences and openly say that they are not the same as men, then that's progress. Not much I acknowledge but I am channeling my inner optimist on this sunny day.

Agree.

I think she would argue that she is very focused on creating specific legislation on and talking about self ID legislation doesn’t help with that.

However, policy changes in prisons and the judiciary have taken place without legislation being passed - institutions are advised to ‘anticipate’ changes in the law even when that contradicts existing law.

Floisme · 17/07/2021 13:44

I wouldn't describe someone who stands up in the House of Commons every year and reads out the names of murdered women as having no spine. My guess is that Phillips is by instinct a consensual politician - and yes, ambitious too - and that even now she's hoping compromise will win the day. Where I do criticise her is over her silence (as far as I'm aware) over the bullying of Rosie Duffield.

Violetparis · 17/07/2021 13:43

I think this article is progress but I find some of it contradictory. Jess says biological sex exists and agrees trans woman are not female but then talks about a trans woman she met at a social club who was 'a woman to me'. Confused

HermioneWeasley · 17/07/2021 13:38

She’s a disappointment. She’s a female Labour MP who is pretty untouchable- they can’t just deselect her if she tells the truth. And she still throws vulnerable women under the bus with the failure to tell the truth. She knows perfectly well what self ID would mean for refuges and still refuses to condemn it in order to further her career.

Shameful

LazyViper · 17/07/2021 13:34

Keir probably loathes OJ as much as OJ detests him. No love lost there.

TheNextSteps · 17/07/2021 13:29

She’s going to come in for a huge amount of flack. Sticking the boot into Owen Jones will cause ructions no doubt. I wonder what Keir will think?

Thelnebriati · 17/07/2021 13:23

I don't have much faith in people who have had difficulty locating their spine when it mattered; especially if we are just expected to take what they say today at face value, without any explanation or apology.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2021 13:15

[quote Thelnebriati]Jess Phillips didnt try to influence Starmer; she agreed with him. She stated 'TWAW' right here on Mumsnet.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3797731-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Jess-Phillips-MP-on-Monday-January-20-at-1pm?msgid=93272754[/quote]
So this interview is a shift for her then? I think that's really important.

People are going to have to change their views. The prisons issue, sports, naked penises in front of children etc are not going to stop. It will get worse and, as is often said on here, the backlash will be immense as the safeguarding issues escalate, the teenagers reach maturity and realise what they've done to their bodies and so on.
If Jess is now prepared to acknowledge the reality of women's bodies, lives and experiences and openly say that they are not the same as men, then that's progress. Not much I acknowledge but I am channeling my inner optimist on this sunny day. Wink

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 17/07/2021 13:10

That suggests to me that she's had a rethink over the last 6 months after seeing how many people don't think TWAW.
I think she needs to be careful to stop her career from going down the pan. She won't be able to do much for Labour or women if she's sacked or silenced.

Thelnebriati · 17/07/2021 13:05

Jess Phillips didnt try to influence Starmer; she agreed with him. She stated 'TWAW' right here on Mumsnet.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3797731-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Jess-Phillips-MP-on-Monday-January-20-at-1pm?msgid=93272754

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2021 12:54

I also like her. It's a shame that she's unable to influence Starmer to step away from the "TWAW - end of statement" and critical thinking that's he's backed himself into. Hopefully as the scandals rack up and the Olympics hit public opinion, more voters will spot his flat earthism and start challenging him about safeguarding and women's rights. Hopefully.

JaniceBattersby · 17/07/2021 12:40

I like her, and I think that she does represent the views of many GC feminists in that she knows that biology exists and that trans women are not women, but she’ll use she / her pronouns around people presenting as women because she doesn’t want to hurt them or embarrass them.

She’s not daft. She knows that’s as far as she can go right now.

OvaHere · 17/07/2021 12:36

@zanahoria

“But I genuinely think the only way a woman will win is if men don’t stand – an all-woman shortlist.”

Jess ran last time saying Labour needed a woman leader but after she dropped out she backed Keir Starmer.

I don't really understand the thinking behind this. I oppose AWSL being anything other than female but they're ignoring the bigger issue here which is why they're necessary in Labour?

Every other major political party has had female leaders at this point except Labour. Why? That's what they should be addressing.

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