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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

American Booksellers Association and Abigail Shrier

210 replies

lionheart · 15/07/2021 21:02

Sorry if there is already a thread--I couldn't find it.

American Booksellers Association and Abigail Shrier
OP posts:
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transdimensional · 17/07/2021 18:10

The apology is so extreme that you'd think they'd published something by a Nazi. Well, Stonewall did say that transphobia is equivalent to anti-semitism.
I've read Shrier's book. It's not some hate-filled screed. It's a reasoned contribution to the debate. But that is too much for the TRAs because #nodebate. Any debate is inherently transphobic, in these people's minds.
The terms "violence" and "trauma" have been appallingly misused. The ABA has disgraced and discredited itself as an institution.
Obviously, there are those who think that Shrier's ideas (essentially watch-and-wait rather than positive affirmation) would cause suffering if implemented. In my view, they are wrong. But there are lots of ideas with the potential to cause suffering if implemented. I think both pro-Communist and anti-Communist, pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist, pro-feminist and anti-feminist literature should be published and made available.

littlbrowndog · 17/07/2021 17:42

Poor Alison. Horrific harm 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎

Tibtom · 17/07/2021 17:35

When you use such hyperbole for such unnecessary offence, what languge do you use when something bad does happen?

Nonmaquillee · 17/07/2021 16:24

@lionheart

Second apology.
Horrific harm?!?!

These people must have led the most sheltered lives imaginable.

StPaulsCathedral · 17/07/2021 16:21

On the US site, Irreversible Damage is at numbers 1, 2 and 3 in the bestsellers for the LGBTQ+ section. Followed by Helen Joyce's book 'Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality' at spots 4 & 5. Oh the horror. Grin

American Booksellers Association and Abigail Shrier
PronounssheRa · 17/07/2021 15:54

Oh FFS this is just ridiculous, they are ridiculous. 🤡

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/07/2021 15:24

Meanwhile, Irreversible Damage is #4 bestseller on Amazon.
I would say the harm is being done to the booksellers of America who are missing out on all those potential sales.
As for ‘it was not a free speech decision’, how can they not see???

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/07/2021 15:21

‘Horrific harm’… Hmm

Aspiringmatriarch · 17/07/2021 15:19

How... how can that apology letter actually exist in the real world, and not as satire? ShockShockShock

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/07/2021 15:16

If they sincerely believe they have committed harm to the extent they are saying they should all resign immediately.

JellySlice · 17/07/2021 15:15

How low can they crawl? How abjectly can they abase themselves? Don't they understand that their grovel is meaningless, ill-judged, and will never be sufficient for the ideologues?

Yes, getting the cover image wrong was negligent, but that's all they needed to say: it was negligent and the result was offensive. We apologise, and will examine our systems to ensure it does not happen again.

I don't want to compare this to the Cultural Revolution, because I don't want to minimise the truly terrible suffering of a nation of people, the genuine violence inflicted upon them in the name of Righthink, but the similarities...

Clymene · 17/07/2021 15:14

I do hope Alison has ordered herself a hair shirt.

JellySlice · 17/07/2021 15:08

🤮

Gumbomambo · 17/07/2021 15:04

Oh my good god!!! What are they thinking? They won’t recover from this. Idiots.

lionheart · 17/07/2021 14:59

Second apology.

American Booksellers Association and Abigail Shrier
OP posts:
567fedup · 17/07/2021 13:09

I've got a fun app which allows me to spy on books on Amazon. I've looked at this book on American Amazon, and at the moment it's selling over 13,000 copies a month. On UK Amazon, it's well over 1,000 a month.

SnoopyLights · 17/07/2021 11:42

@NewlyGranny

So how many extra sales is that? Counting mine I make it 6 of us mentioning a purchase.

Nothing like banning a book to make people eager to get their hands on a copy!

I've actually started a project of buying banned books or authors who are being targeted by cancel culture.

It didn't start out to be particularly focused on feminist or gender-critical books but it's taken quite a steep curve in that direction recently.

It's been very interesting through, a mixture of fiction and non-fiction, quote a range of subjects and genres, and I try to print of a couple of articles about why the book or author has been targeted for banning or cancellation to go with the book, usually the article that brought the book to my attention is the first one to be printed with it.

If it's more an author being cancelled than any one of their books (for example being dropped from an event or a panel, like Amanda Craig or Milli Hill) I will pick a couple of their books at random and add them to the ever growing collection with an explanation about why I've included them.

AfternoonToffee · 17/07/2021 11:31

snoopy if you order through the likes of Hive they will deliver as well. You could nominate any bookshop I guess.

SnoopyLights · 17/07/2021 11:28

@Ereshkigalangcleg

got the Kindle version. Much safer.

I heard somewhere that if Amazon remove from sale they will take it off your device.

I worry about this, so I try to make sure I can get an actual, physical copy of the book if it's got any hint of cancel culture wafting about it.

If they want those books back then Jeff will have to come and fight me for them.

SnoopyLights · 17/07/2021 11:26

@PaterPower

I bought the book earlier today.

Unfortunately via Amazon, who I note had been petitioned by some of their employees to ban it (result being no ban, but they promised they wouldn’t promote it).

Could anyone recommend a good alternative bookseller for this kind of purchase?

I got mine from Amazon but when they banned the Ryan T Anderson book When Harry Became Sally I managed to track down a copy through Waterstones. It was about ten days from ordering to receiving.

WH Smiths took the order but then cancelled it without an explanation.

We are not near any independent book sellers unfortunately.

MaudTheInvincible · 17/07/2021 10:58

I listened to the In Our Time programme on the cultural revolution not long ago. It very much put me in mind of this particular social phenomenon. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q9b6. It was very interesting.

EishetChayil · 17/07/2021 10:50

@UtopiaPlanitia

The overblown wording of some of the public statements, released by organisations and individuals accused of insufficient wokeness, in recent years often put me in mind of confessions made during struggle sessions in the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I don’t think this frenetic finger-pointing can be sustainable and may well provoke a backlash when society has had enough. There are better, more consensual ways to effect change in liberal democracies.

Precisely.

I taught a module last year to undergrads about the Cultural Revolution in China. So much of it is being mirrored in society today.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/07/2021 10:39

Without a refund?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/07/2021 09:36

got the Kindle version. Much safer.

I heard somewhere that if Amazon remove from sale they will take it off your device.

sashagabadon · 17/07/2021 08:26

It’s a great book. I got the audible book. Very enlightening and concerning. I would recommend to anyone interested in this topic.