The reactionary Feminist Mary Harrington brilliant interview on Triggernometry

I really like Harrington, she's thoughtful and also a very clear writer who doesn't stoop to games.

It's interesting about her view of balance and progress, and I hadn't twigged those were her views, but it's probably why I find so much of what she says sensible. The idea of materialist progress, especially in the moral realm, is one which IMO causes a lot of errors in logic. Was it Bertrand Russel or one of the other philosophers of that period who said that this was a holdover from Christianity, but oddly translated into a kind of faith about social progress in the material world. Hegel plus Marx, I suppose.

Anyway, as soon as you jettison this sort of faith in progress (to what) and the view of time that comes with it, political thought has to become much more cautious, and right answers seem much more difficult and provisional, restricted to a particular place and time.

I also think the idea that liberation and control are a balance is really important. The basic point, to me, is that if you want a society with a lot of legal freedoms, people need to have a lot of interior control, if you don't want chaos. And how do you create people with that sort of interior control? It's not easy, and not really amenable to very easy-going sorts of childrearing or even education. Alterably, a society with strict legal/social controls can allow people to have a lot of freedom of thought.

She is a hard thinker and thought provoking writer. I often disagree with her (lockdowns, the sincerity and intentions of Tories!) But I always learn something. Finn Mackay is the same on the 'other', trans leaning, feminist side.

I am yet to listen but i do think being short is one of the worst "crimes" you can commit as male and they are definitely disadvantaged vs tall men qboth in terms of partner selection and salary (check out CEO height bias)
Respect as a boss is harder to get in the office as a short man vs a tall one, in a similar to a female vs a man. Is it difficult to the same degree, almost certainly not bit still...

I was looking forward to this but the first sentence, a clip before the show even starts was her saying something that is rubbish, which put me off.

She said there is tention between acknowledging physiological differences and wanting equality, has anyone told that to smaller unathletic men? because they seem to be getting equality just fine.

In a similar vein I was stopped in my tracks when I came across criticism of the Whig Interpretation of History. I'd imagine that's right up MH's street.

Thank you! This really is brilliant and quite mindbending. I think her point about not believing in progress is subtle (yet still valuing feminism) is very interesting and true. It reminds me of how mindbending I also found reading Darwin, and how I think most people, especially people of a liberal bent, misunderstand what he was saying. People are constantly using the word "evolved" to suggest that someone has reached a higher state than something that existed previously, but that is not what Darwin is suggesting at all, from my reading. After all, any creature that exists now has evolved as much as it has needed to evolve to survive to the current day, so worms and fungi are just as evolved as you and I are. She seems to be making the point that within our human lifetimes, there are certain trade-offs between, say, obligation and liberation, and you can't outrun those by simply claiming the mantle of "progress."

That was absolutely brilliant, thank you for sharing it Childrenofthestones.

I love hearing Mary speak, there is no one else that I know of who articulates such ideas, many of which really ring true for me. I would love to spend an afternoon in a pub garden with her, she is one of the most interesting people I am aware of at the moment in my opinion.

Good stuff. I love Triggernometry. The presenters have got really good at interviewing.

Enjoyed listening. Agreed with some aspects, disagreed with others. But worth listening to and an interesting interview

I liked it, my responses were a mixture of: I agree with that, that's interesting, and that's rubbish. It was enjoyable to listen along while thinking and not simply agreeing.